WELCOME
PRAYER
WORD SET TO MUSIC
SILENCE
1st Peter 3.end
Meat
October 11th 2015
I want to introduce something new to our Gatherings here at CAMPUS.
It was a suggestion from Mary quite a while ago and it has taken some time for me to implement it but let’s start today.
What I’d like to do is take the passages we are going to sing and read them, then explain a bit about them and their context before we sing them.
This will add only one or two minutes to our time together but I think it might lend to a more attentive and participative approach to the Word set to music.
Today we are singing:
Alright, we left off last week reading in chapter 3 of 1st Peter:
1st Peter 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
And we wrapped our time up discussing the line, “saved by water.”
So let’s move into our passages for today where Peter continues, saying:
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Now before we proceed these passages provide us an excellent opportunity to see how scripture can be interpreted in some really wild ways.
What do I mean?
In verse 19-20, which we covered last week, it says that Jesus, by the Spirit . . .
. . . also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Then in verse 21 Peter says:
The like “figure” whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Let me ask you, when Peter says:
The like figure whereunto even baptism does NOW save us, what is the “figure” mentioned in verse 20 that he is speaking of?
Christians say the figure he refers to is water, when he says, “eight souls were saved by water.”
Makes sense, right?
But the LDS, at least the better read in the Bible LDS claim that the like figure is the number eight and interpret these passages to mean:
The like figure (number eight) the age of accountability is whereunto even baptism now saves us.
Admittedly, when we talk about “figures” in English numbers are typically first and things like water would be at best second, so what do we do?
We take a minimum of four basic actions in discerning the best way to read the verses:
We look at context of the immediate passages concerned.
We look at the original language (in this case Greek).
We examine other passages (in this case, passages that speak to what actually saves us) and finally,
We might examine how other translators (other than the King James) have decided to interpret the meaning of the Greek.
Here the context is clear.
In verse 18 Peter says that Jesus went and made an announcement to the “spirits in prison” and then adds this line –
“Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
The context is souls being saved by water. And we discussed last week what the line means – How God saved Noah and his family – eight souls in total – (by water) from the wicked.
Then Peter ties his next thought – water baptism – into the content he’s provided us regarding Noah, (who with his family) saying:
“The like figure (water) whereunto even (water) baptism doth also now save us . . .”
Again the context being God saved Noah “by water” and now Peter ties this concept of being “saved by water” to us.
That is easy-peasy context.
Then we look at the Greek. The word translated, “the like figure,” is “ANT EET OO PON” and it means “a corresponding figure” where baptism does now also save us.
Water was sent from below and above to cover the wicked and lift the righteous above its surface to safety in Noah’s day. When the water subsided Noah and his family walked on a completely new earth (new life).
The “corresponding element or figure” (of water) symbolically serves to illustrate the same things we experience through the Christian baptism once we have come to faith.
Then we consider what other passages have to say about salvation and/or water baptism.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
We might then look at the challenging verses like what Peter said to the Jews who believed at the day of Pentecost and asked Peter:
“Men and brethren, what shall we do? (now that we believe that Jesus was who He said He was?)
And Peter said: “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit.”
And in looking at the Greek we realize that when Peter says
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . .” that For is a resultant preposition and means, “because you have received a remission of your sins” and is NOT causal (meaning, “so that you can receive a remission of your sins”)
Finally, we look at other translations of the passage. Where the King James says:
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now also save us,”
The American Standard says, “which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism,”
The Modern King James says:
“which figure now also saves us, baptism . . “
The New KJV says, “There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism”
The RSV says, “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you”
And the Weymouth says, “And corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you”
The WEB says “This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you”
And Young’s literal Translation says, “And also to which an antitype doth now save us–baptism,”
Taking all four reviews of the verse we readily see that the LDS view appealing to the like figure being the number eight is a fail. However, what on earth is Peter saying when he writes this ABOUT water baptism, “the like figure where even baptism doth now save us?”
As I mentioned, the idea is, that as Noah was saved by water (experienced salvation by the water) so there is a sense in which water is made instrumental in our salvation.
I think the fact that Peter mentioned that Noah “was saved by water” lead him to associate the use of water in our salvation experience as an emblem that we HAVE been saved and never that it saves us.
Obviously the corresponding figure of water does not correspond in every way – for instance Noah stayed out of the water altogether (riding over or upon it) wherein our old man “enters into the water,” then rises out of it symbolically anew.
But in both cases there is a tie between “the presence of water” and “the fact of salvation.”
Noah was “shut up” in the Ark by the LORD, (as we are shut up unto Him the moment we believe) the interior and exterior of the ark coated in “pitch,” (Kah far) a Hebrew word which means
“to cover, expiate, placate and to reconcile.”
Interestingly enough “kahfar” is the Hebrew word for “atonement,” and to forgive, cleansedpacify, pardon and purge.
Surrounded by “kahfar” – pitch – atonement – Noah and His family were then saved by the water.
As recepients of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus blood we then emblematically enter into the water, representative of being buried with Christ (like the wicked were in Noah’s day) and then being raised out of it.
So even though Peter says, “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us”
The sense is that baptism is administered in connection with true faith in the Lord Jesus and when it is properly a symbol of the putting away of sin by dying to the Old Man and living by a risen life in the Holy Spirit.
Peter clearly explains himself and what he means in a parenthetical reference he makes immediately after writing:
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us” by adding:
(not that the water puts away of the filth of the flesh, but (it is) the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
That added information is a must to understanding the passage and as an aside the LDS missionaries never include the added reference when they quote this passage.
What he means, of course is no outward ablution or purification ritual can save us, but only those things that come from “conscience.”
In other words, the things that come from and are done from the heart for God have meaning and purpose. Those things that don’t are empty and superfluous.
Peter adds this important clause presumably to guard the statement from the abuse to which it would otherwise be liable, the supposition that baptism has of itself a purifying and saving power.
So to ensure against this he clearly shows that there is a whole lot more to salvation than the mere outward application of water. How does he size up, “what is a whole lot more?” He says that water baptism ought to be . . .
“the answer of a good conscience toward God.”
I really like this explanation of “why and what water baptism” a lot. It is “the answer of a good conscience toward God.”
Not that is does not give us a good conscience toward God (at least it shouldn’t.) It is the answer to a good conscience.
This is an interesting word translated, “the answer of a good conscience toward God” because in the Greek the word (EPER–OH –TAY-MA) means “an answer to a question asked, and many scholars believe that when believers were baptized in water in the apostolic days that they were asked a question – and their water baptism was “the answer of their good conscience toward God?”
In my estimation it would seem that for a person to, from the heart, actually have a “good conscience” before God, and their submission to water baptism was the response to that good conscience, then the QUESTION must have had something to do with their believing that Jesus paid for their sin and possibly in light of that belief they now wanted to publicly identify with His death and resurrection by being baptized.
Pretty remarkable, when we think about it. Of course the real efficacy of the water baptism (or its power in saving) was not in the external rite but in the state of the conscience.
I think it is interesting that neither Peter, nor anyone else, mentions what the question or questions were.
May the Spirit guide but since the act itself is so highly emblematic of our Lords death and resurrection, and since it does serve as a public identification with Him, we can be pretty sure that the questions revolved around a person trusting in Him and His life and death to reconcile them to God.
Peter then adds something interesting to all of this. He says that we are saved (in the manner we have just talked about) “
By the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
The meaning being – in my estimation – that the whole efficiency of Jesus Christ – His birth, life lived, death was proven by and through His resurrection.
Peter may be tapping into some of Paul’s writings here, as Paul said these profound words in Romans 6:4:
“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
I think there is something here that I have missed emphasizing – baptism is important.
It has parallels to Noah, and Moses, and Joseph. It has parallels to water – and all that these could be. It has significance to Jesus Death and Resurrection. It is the New Testament identifier. It is highly symbolic and in my own experience, when it was associated with a good conscience toward God it came with power and spiritual blessings.
I am the least ritualistic of most men but I do find this rite important and am always willing to baptize any who have yet to receive it in the manner Peter and Paul describe.
Verse 22, speaking of Christ, wraps up the chapter as Peter says:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Okay. We’re going to lose some people today over this last verse but it’s a big one and an important one in seeking God in Spirit and in truth and I have to teach it as I see it – which admittedly is not even close to the traditional view.
Please know I do NOT try and see scripture in odd ways – I just must be odd in the way I am made and cannot help but see things as I see them.
I know I am not alone in my views but I also know that there’s not a large crowd who holds the following position.
But on we go.
Speaking of Jesus Peter says, “Who is gone into heaven.”
The most literal from the Greek is, “having Gone into heaven.”
Now the writer of Hebrews calls Jesus our great High Priest. He makes reference to Him making intercession for us and He makes reference to Him entering the Holy of Holies.
I am convinced that Jesus did just that – as our High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies to make intercession with the Father.
As a type looking back to the Old Covenant High Priest, Jesus, upon ascension entered into the realm where God dwells, on the behalf of human beings, taking His own shed blood, as it were, with Him – as the high priests of the Old Testament would take animal blood.
Outside of the temple, in Old Testament times, the Nation of Israel waited while their singular high priest was inside and the shekinah glory of God rested on the temple.
When He exited – alive – the people knew that their offering of blood through the high priest was accepted! And celebrations followed.
So we have Jesus entering in, but unlike the high priest of the Old Covenant (who never sat in the Holy of Holies because the sacrificial work was never done) Jesus, entering in once and for all of us, sat at the right hand of the glory of God.
And for a generation the Nation of Israel (to whom He came and revealed Himself) would have an opportunity to recognize Him as the promised One and His resurrection as viable.
This was the work of the Apostles.
The parallel to the Old Testament high priest coming out of the temple again, signifying that God had accepted his offering of blood on behalf of the people was met when Jesus returned – with judgment and salvation – for those who received Him and His resurrection from the grave.
His coming in the clouds in that day was the believers, the followers witness that God had approved of Him and His sacrifice.
We often teach that His resurrection was this evidence but I think we make a mistake. Nothing was finished until He died, resurrected, ascended and then returned.
If He hasn’t yet returned then we are still waiting to see if God truly received His offering as High Priest entering in with His atoning blood.
So here Peter says, speaking of Jesus:
“Who has gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
At the time of Peter’s writing this was the case – Jesus had gone INTO heaven, and He was on the right hand of God and listen – at that time, when Peter was writing, as verse 22 proves, “angels and authorities and powers being made subject to Him.
The King James translation of this is unfortunate because the Greek for huppotasso – a word we are somewhat familiar with by this point because its what we are supposed to be in respect to governments and bosses – is in the genitive absolute and might better be translated:
Have BEEN made
Now Yield
Having been put under
Meaning, when Peter was writing, he admits here that when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father “angels, authorities and powers” WERE placed under His control.
It was completed then. We are not waiting still today for this to occur. It happened. It’s done.
Paul echoes the finality of this, saying in Ephesians 1 beginning at verse 17 and saying:
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, (that line is past tense) when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, (again, past tense) and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”
So back to Peter’s last verse in chapter 3. He too says (and probably echoing Paul)
“Who has gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers are made subject unto him.”
If I was to say that in the XYZ corporation Bob is over everything – “senior managers, laborers and everything under its roof,” mentioning these three areas is like naming everything.
That is what I believe Peter is saying here when he mentions, “angels, authorities, and powers” – EVERYTHING is made subject (as we are to be subject to Kings, magistrates, bosses) to Him.
He has all power in the heavens and in the earth. He alone can save; and he alone can destroy.
No body needs to fear who have put their trust in him, as he can do whatsoever he will in behalf of his followers, and has good and evil spirits under his absolute command.
Now the trouble, now the question. At the time Peter wrote these word the Gospel was still being preached to those of the House of Israel who were dwelling at Jerusalem where the temple stood, the priesthood thrived, the genealogies lay.
As we have mentioned before, in chapter four of this epistle Peter includes this line:
“But the end of all things is at hand . . .”
Now I realize that most people do not believe this means “all things” but I personally do believe it means the end of all things relative to God work to establish His system to save human beings was at hand.
I don’t believe it was the end to the work of His Spirit, who draws all men to Christ nor do I believe that God’s love, or care or interactions with Man are over.
But I do believe that His work in, through and against the Nation of Israel to establish all things ended and the implications of this are weighty.
Why?
The most oft quoted words from the Old Testament in the New are from David where He said in Psalm 110:1
“The LORD said unto my Lord, “Sit thou at my right hand, until (beat) I make thine enemies thy footstool.”
We have just read, from the pen of Paul in Ephesians and from the pen of Peter here in 1st Peter 3 that all things have been placed in the authority and power of Jesus. That David’s prophecy is done.
All things are in His power. Not some. All.
And if this is so, what are we to make of the line, “Sit thou at my right hand, until (beat) I make thine enemies thy footstool.”
What can we say? Either we wait for all enemies to BE placed under the power of Jesus OR God HAS made all His enemies UNDER Him (or His footstool)?
Which is it?
Most believers today somehow believe that Jesus is not in control – yet. They will say,
“Look around. Does it look like He’s at the helm?” But if we remember “that His kingdom is NOT of this world” and that He reigns over His Kingdom spiritually, and that scripture clearly states that He is in full control – and if this is the case, we have to ask ourselves how to interpret the words of 1st Corinthians 15 where we read beginning at verse 20:
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Then read verse 28
“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
What is this saying? A lot – most of which is not admitted to today.
I will close with how I understand these passages.
First, in the beginning God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
And when God “spoke” everything happened.
I would then suggest that the very Word’s God spoke, which were in the beginning with God, and which were God – became flesh – and dwelled among us.
I would suggest that Jesus – God with us – accomplished everything He was called to accomplish and finished it all –
First through His life, then through His death, then through His resurrection, then through His ascension to the right hand of the Father, where everything was put under His feet, and then finally at His return with judgement and reward on that age.
I now submit that since all things – including death – have been won over by Him, that the “UNTIL” has arrived, and that He is no longer “at the right hand of the Father, but as the Word of God once made flesh once again submits to the Father, dwelling in the bosom of the Father, but continuing everlasting with the Father, and God has become all in all.
He certainly remains our mediator because He is our only way to God.
But I am convinced that His final victory (over death) was had long ago and now, our the death of every individual, they are resurrected unto eternal life or they are resurrected unto eternal damnation – that this is final, and is the culmination of either a body fit for the consuming fire of God . . . or not.
Beat
Q and A
