Faith without religion.
The Divine Dance: Exploring the Dynamics of Masculine and Feminine in Marriage and Faith
idolatry, communion, conscience
In a recent episode of “I Don’t Get the Bible,” Shawn McCraney and his daughter Delaney McCraney delve into some thought-provoking questions about theology and relationships. The discussion kicks off with the concept of eternal progression, a belief central to Mormon theology and Freemasonry, which suggests that after this life, individuals continue to develop and progress. Shawn shares his personal belief in progression, emphasizing that it aligns with the idea of being glorified and reigning with Christ, rather than the traditional notion of an eternal, static afterlife.
The conversation then shifts to the topic of reincarnation, which Shawn finds philosophically challenging. He argues that it diminishes the importance of individual purpose in this life, as it suggests a loss of self and identity. Instead, he proposes that life serves as a proving ground where individuals choose between light and dark, shaping their eternal journey.
A particularly engaging segment addresses the dynamics of marriage and the biblical concept of submission. Shawn explains that the idea of a wife submitting to her husband is often misunderstood. He emphasizes that it should be a partnership of respect and love, where both parties contribute equally. He draws parallels between the masculine and feminine aspects of God, suggesting that a balanced relationship mirrors the divine nature.
The episode also touches on the role of laws and rules in religion. Shawn argues that while laws can provide structure, they often lead to judgment and idolatry. Instead, he advocates for love and patience, allowing individuals to learn and grow through their experiences and mistakes.
Throughout the discussion, Shawn and Delaney explore deep theological concepts, challenging traditional interpretations and encouraging listeners to think critically about their beliefs. The episode is a testament to the power of open dialogue and the importance of understanding the complexities of faith and relationships.
Podcast Transcript:
welcome to I don’t get the Bible this is
Delaney mccraine I’m Shan mccraine dad
and youngest daughter and uh we are
studying the Bible together openly free
free talk and uh so Delaney tell us what
we’re doing today we’re gonna answer
some questions oh yipp c
mofo
okay let’s start with the first one do
you believe in Eternal
progression this is a question for you
oh I don’t even know what Eternal
progression is it means that after this
life you go on and you develop more and
more and more and more it’s it’s very
Central to Mormon theology uh they
believe in progression and that’s why
they believe in an eternal regression of
gods who have progressed and then we got
our God who then created this world
creating us we can choose and then we
become gods and we progress too so
progression is huge in uh
Freemasonry uh huge that’s what
Freemasonry is all about is the
progression of a man and woman uh to
move man and woman yeah in Freemasonry
oh yeah uh it’s they have a separate uh
thing uh historically for women but
anyway progression is huge uh I think
that I absolutely personally believe in
uh progression uh I don’t believe in the
idea of dying and sitting on a cloud and
playing a heartb shiing Jesus for
eternity that’s a man-made thing U but
uh I do think that the scripture says
that if we suffer with him meaning our
flesh not
physically you know if you suffer with
him uh you will reign with him you will
be glorified and you will be a joint air
with him so progression I think that we
uh
uh I I don’t I can’t say I know it but
the question is do I believe it I
believe that we will be used in ways if
we have submitted our will to his that
continually advance and and change and
grow that’s very
non-Christian they do not they want to
say there’s this life you believe you
die you go to hell you go to heaven and
you sit on a cloud or whatever it is oh
wow yeah do you think there’s
any possibility of like
reincarnation it’s a strange idea um
it’s definitely Eastern and uh you know
all
the I’m sorry there’s a kind of a
scary dark philosophy behind it through
most of the expressions of
it and I don’t necessarily agree with it
because what it does is it removes the
import of you as an individual and this
life being important and you having a
specific purpose in place that be began
and will continue to go as you it
destroys the you and it looks to another
expression of you and I just it’s too
loose for me yeah um I don’t like it
philosophically but I don’t say it can’t
it’s not possible no that ties into what
you were talking about in the previous
episode which is like the Eastern thing
is like a loss of self yeah which means
yourself or your spirit like goes into
this big mass of God that comes back in
again and it’s like you don’t have an
identity that you sacrifice in the way
that Jesus had identity that sacrifice
yeah so that makes sense I mean if we
really want to get radical I think that
uh this life is The Proving Ground for
everybody and it is a Way Station of do
you want to be part of the dark or do
you want to be part of the light and I
think that as part of the light and as
part of the dark after this life you’ve
chosen the side you’re on you will then
participate in whatever the light and
dark continues to do and it might even
be engaging in this world I don’t know
but I think there is a choosing and
proving of what you really love and what
you want uh partially in and through
this
life that’s a good question who’s that
from that’s from Matt o mat
mat I want dat girl named
M are you kidding uh M
soprano it’s a joke
m I’m phonetically driven oh my gosh dad
jokes our next question is from NAA
business n business
name I like that name um this is a
curious one o should a wife submit to
her husband does she have does he have
more Authority than she does should a
husband submit to his wife oh the vers
is
quoted
support this is strange support the
concept of a hierarchical marriage seem
clear but the fruit tends to be abuse I
don’t get it oh man what a great
question that is a great questiony
that’s a great question thank you
na yeah can we address it for five
minutes take your time wow that’s
embarrassing
uh look it let’s go back to the Garden
of Eden Adam and Eve
okay and uh Adam and Eve
uh they were respectively individuals
that were
one uh and so then there’s the fall and
there’s the whole thing well um subject
the word is should a wife be subject to
her husband submit or submit Paul is
talking to an audience there and an in a
time and place specifically in Corinth
where women were becoming liberated by
the gospel and they started to you know
take that you know uh to heart and
speaking and doing all kinds of things
and and so he had to reain it
in the
word
submit best
means to
respect it best that’s what it best
means it’s what men want in a
relationship with a wife they want their
wives to respect them what do the wives
want they want their husbands to love
them okay so the first thing Paul said
was husbands love your wife as Christ
loved the church and gave his life for
it that’s the first thing to go with
when you’re talking about husband and
wife relationships so you husband
housebound you marry you choose to now
be housebound instead out of the parties
and on the golf course and doing your
own thing you’re now housebound you’re
devoted to her and you love her and you
give your life for her that’s the first
first
principle then in response to that she
should show you respect when the husband
fails to love her she will respond by
failing to respect him and it creates
real problems and marriages well Christ
brought us all back to the original plan
uh uh Garden of Eden Adam and Eve and so
he says in in Christ there’s no male and
female
so these ideas of this submissiveness
and this Authority no way it’s a
partnership it is an absolute integrated
partnership and if a man doesn’t do his
job first the woman shouldn’t be
expected to do her job second and these
jobs they’re very limited in scope it’s
just love and then respect so should a
woman uh submit to her husband in the
idea that he’s a man and she’s a
woman it’s all predicated on if he’s
loved her first yeah
wow H yeah I wanted to I was looking up
while you’re saying that like where it
actually says this like what it actually
says I’ve never seen it Ephesians
5:15 and it starts with I’m reading
Young’s literal translation because I
want to get as literal as possible for
this part yeah see then how exactly you
walk not as unwise but as wise Redeeming
the time this is a little bit of a
preface but Redeeming the time because
the days are evil because of this become
not fools but understanding what is the
will of the Lord and be not drunk with
wine in which in which is dissoluteness
but be filled with the spirit speaking
to yourselves in Psalms and hymns and
spiritual songs singing and making
melody in the heart of the Lord giving
thanks all the way for all things in the
name of the Lord Jesus Christ to God and
the father subjecting yourselves to one
another in the fear of God that’s the
first thing it says he’s talking to
Believers the wives to your own and then
he goes the wives to your own husbands
subject yourselves as to the Lord
because the husband is the head of the
wife as also the Christ is head of the
assembly and he is savior of the body
but even as the assembly B is subject to
Christ so are the wives to their own
husbands and everything the husbands
love your own wives as also Christ did
love the assembly and give himself for
it that he might sanctify it having
cleansed it with the bathing of the
water and the
sayings blah blah blah
um so ought the husbands to love their
own wives as their own bodies he who is
loving his own wife himself he do love
for no one has suff his own flesh should
hate but nourish and cherish it yeah um
by the way that line totally counters
today people saying I Hate My Flesh I
Hate My Flesh I hate who I am I hate
myself I don’t believe it oh I think
everyone loves thems centrally nobody
has not does not love themselves no one
ever his own flesh should hate but death
nourish cherish we take care of
ourselves you know they say oh I hate
myself you know no you don’t yeah might
hate elements of your life but no yeah
so
so I could see people reading that wives
being the first people spoken
to as
the like that should happen
first um no never never is that just
because of your experience that too yeah
uh and there’s also I mean let’s talk
about it that we use the show if we I
don’t know how much time we have we have
a couple more questions too but okay
I’ll be quick
okay this world operates off emotions
everything is driven
emotionally uh music film we feel
something we do it okay that’s the flesh
I feel hungry I eat I respond
emotionally God I suggest is made of
perfect masculinity and perfect
femininity those two things that’s God
and God made man in his own image male
and female made he them so I think that
in scripture we have the father
representing masculinity in the Old
Testament wait sorry is that a verse
that you just added male and fale them
oh my gosh yeah we that’s what you
taught on sorry okay in scripture the
Old Testament we have a demonstration of
masculine God he gets angry he gets
pissed he wants to kill people he kills
people wipes them out that’s a man
that’s men okay in the Incarnation of
Christ we have the feminine
representative of God perfect femininity
why do we say that he’s kind he’s
merciful he’s loving in a marriage you
have a masculine man the kids have done
something and he comes home and he’s
like you know yeah and the wife steps in
and says honey you know and this is how
we have a balance in
that Eve was deceived by the tempter in
the Garden of Eden she literally was
tricked okay why
because
emotions led what she was going to do
Adam he wasn’t deceived he flat out
rebelled okay that’s why we call Adam’s
fault cuz she was tricked so the man in
relationship he uses or should use more
logic in the masculine sense to make
decisions and govern the
family the woman brings in the right
emotionalism through Christ to that
relationship and she balances all that
out like Christ did in the image of the
masculine father now we have the
feminine Christ who shows how God
is so as a way for a couple to exist in
this world you have the man taking the
lead with more logic less emotion but
you have the woman stepping in and
keeping it healthy and kind and merciful
and good by bringing that in so because
of that order Paul says the things he
says it’s it’s the best way to have a
relation marital relationship but if the
man becomes demonstratively masculine
it’s my will I say that he’s lost it and
if a woman becomes overly controlling
with her emotions it’s going to be just
as big of a problem so we have an order
well let me tell you the scripture also
has an order where there’s the father
God there’s Jesus and there’s the man
and there’s the wife and there’s the
children that is a Biblical order that
is given it’s not one of Supremacy it’s
not one of strength strength it’s a
matter of what works best based off
makeup and if you want to have a better
marriage people will learn to walk in
those ways when you have a marriage
where a woman is super uh controlling or
whatever she is and the man is more
feminine okay you knowes you know that’s
just how it works yeah but um because it
gets into all kinds of things I won’t I
won’t even say it but I just want to
say men have really ruined in the name
of religion that what Paul was trying to
teach they’ve ruined it because it’s
honey I’m saying this and we’re going to
do that okay okay and not ever it’s a
partnership of equality Christ the
father equally masculine feminine in
equal te they are one God and that’s how
a couple sees themselves as one so
they’re a partnership and no one
dominating does that make sense yeah it
really does say
okay and Jesus was respecting the father
it’s also weird to call him the father
because it’s like he’s only called the
father really except for one exception
and is Isaiah when Jesus became
incarnate that’s when he became the
father yeah father to a son yeah rather
than like a partner yeah but still it
was
God loved Jesus and Jesus respected God
yeah and you want to get really radical
Jesus was more like the wife of the
father yeah that’s what I’m yeah and I
mean we’re talking about really far out
thought here Christians are going to
choke on that big time but he is like
the wife of the god of Father we have
the father we have the wife we have a
couple that make the one God it’s two
that make the one and uh that’s how we
have Us in marriage having to learn to
relate to that here’s the thing what did
I say when I started this this world
operates off emotion right so who came
and taught us how to govern our emotions
Jesus he became this world he came into
this world and he taught us how to
govern our emotional state right and so
that’s how we would learn to as men and
women walk emotionally MH
the world says walk emotionally to your
flesh he came and became flesh to teach
us how to handle these emotions that
make us human yeah and it seems like he
taught the Jews something more like
appealing to their logic too like they
thought
that like I don’t know it seems like he
was he was Silling the god role for the
Jews and the Jesus role for
Gentiles do you get what I’m trying to
say kind of like Jews had a system and
he was trying to through their system be
like this is an even better system but
then to other people he’s trying to
regulate their emotional respons
emtional responses yeah I can see that
and I can also see how the Jews were p p
predominantly masculine yeah it’s all
male lead yeah I was just going to ask
where like there’s an idea of a bride
somewhere here too Ephesians 5 if you
keep reading in Ephesians 5 you’ll get
to
uh he says he washes for this shall
leave a man leave his father and mother
and shall be joined his wife they should
be two keep going after he says the
washing of the he that Jesus the washing
of the Ephesians
52728 I think that he might present
himself to the assembly so ought the
husbands love their wives as their own
bodies for no one ever his own flesh
should hate
that’s what we just said because members
we are of his body of his flesh and of
his
bones for this cause shall a man leave
his father and mother and shall be
joined to his wife and they shall
be the two for one
flesh two for one flesh just like the
two make one God but sorry I’m asking
about like the body like the bride of
Christ that what is that that’s like the
the church yeah so then we get rid of
that female masculine thing with Father
and Son yeah Christ he had a bride
Christ had a bride yeah he he came to
collect his bride is how it’s put okay
so now we return to Christ now having
the masculine and and the bride being
the feminine thing he is coming to take
but I’m wondering if like
God as masculine and
feminine sent Fe fine
Jesus to like collect his bride like his
his Collective feminine sort of like
Jesus not Jesus being the masculine but
God being the masculine Jesus collecting
the rest of people like him back to God
does that make sense it makes perfect
sense and and that’s the thing is that
Jesus was God so he is the masculine
Gathering the feminine yeah right and so
when we look at the world the feminine
is what solves the world’s problems it’s
not the masculine the feminine need the
masculine and the masculine need the
feminine but it’s the feminine response
to everything that solves why because
Jesus brought his response well his
bride decided to be like him selfless
sacrificial serving you know and and and
forgiving all of those feminine
attributes and then he when those who
were faithful to that collected together
he came in took her and then he married
her she was his and she was made of Jews
and Gentiles of that day and they go to
the New Jerusalem above not down here
and they become the ones who officiate
and administer that place for everybody
all the children who come into it which
is us Jesus and his bride are the CH are
the parents of the children who come
into that Kingdom forever
more radical wow deep
Concepts yeah and it should be made
clear that you don’t think of feminine
as female no and masculine is male and
that’s why there’s this like a woman
could be the masculine in the
relationship and the man is the feminine
likeed up now yeah we’ve got yeah but we
no not at all not male and female you
know but that is like a functioning
Dynamic where the mass
Uline like a feminine submits to
masculine a masculine respects Fe or you
get it well let’s just speak graphically
if you just look biologically uh the
masculine enters the feminine yeah yeah
she receives him he gives to her I mean
this stuff and you can go on and on and
on with how insanely beautiful God is in
the creative thing you know of course in
our day and Agee we just make it carnal
you know so sad yeah beautiful we’re
past 20 minutes but we have two more
questions right now we’ll go over does
doesn’t the majority of people need laws
from a religion so they don’t make their
life a
mess um
well oh God these questions are good
here’s the thing laws
always lead
to the opposite of what God wants from
people it leads to judgment condemnation
guilt slavery idolatry like you idolize
the rule that you have obeyed or
yourself for obeying the rule so what
God did was he established the law among
the nation of Israel and he showed how
it doesn’t work Peter said in Acts hey
our fathers couldn’t follow this thing
okay we as humans say let’s give laws
because people can’t do
it why do we do that because people make
their lives a mess we see that mess as
God saying I hate you you’re going to
hell when in reality it’s in the messes
and the weakness that people make of
their lives that God is able to operate
you see because our messes break us down
from our ego
and then his spirit is able that’s
calling to all say Hey you know I have a
solution for you if everybody was
successful by laws nobody would care
about God so it this is the problem with
religion it seems to think we need to
step in and help people not make messes
and the reality is messes are part of
our Lives let’s embrace them see them
allow them but in love respond to them
and then the people who are in those
messes will come around and see the
light and change your oldest sister is a
perfect example of this she had some uh
issues right we tried laws when she was
young it made her nothing but
rebellious so her mom my wife came to me
and said we got to change this I mean I
was the I was the religious guy and she
said we got to change this that’s crazy
so I listened to my wife and and her
femininity and I said okay I’ll stop
with this rule stuff and we’re going to
love her and when we said we’re going to
love her she went to worse mess she went
hard she took our cars she hot booxed
our new cars she she did all kinds of
stuff but we knew it was love that would
bring her to the place where we wanted
her to come before her maker and there’s
probably not many greater examples of
that in her life and now yes see how
that works now flesh says we should have
just and this is what parents do nope
you’re on restriction nope you’re this
we’re NOP you’re out of the house yeah
God God doesn’t kick us out of the house
let’s relax on sin and messes and let’s
let people freely live and let love
bring them along yeah it just as longer
it’s long game it’s long game and you
can study the Bible like I’m sorry but
it’s just I honestly think the rules are
just quick fixes quick fixes yep
everyone loves them quicker fixes and
here’s the thing they work they work as
quick fixes world even as long like
lifelong
fixes maybe like addicts having their
programs that they that work for them
sort of thing but like
um like God seems to work explicitly
through
time like time it just takes time yeah
like we don’t understand things without
time on our side and all of the ways we
try to avoid time
like aren’t helping right in that in a
spiritual sense you got to just back off
on that I understand and now listen that
doesn’t mean we don’t we don’t uh use
laws to help govern ourselves in the
material world world you know we do and
that’s fine you know I have to watch
what I do in the material relative to my
diet and not eat too much sugar and all
this stuff those things are fine but
when it comes to the moral character
Liberty and choices of an individual you
got to let them fly baby and you got to
love them along the
way okay one more question one more um
that was a great qu all these questions
have been excellent really great keep
submitting them at I don’t getthe
bible.com yes um um last question for
today is a little hard for me to
understand but when you speak about
idolatry in US is that the same the
natural man is an enemy to God that’s
how it’s phrased and it’s strange but
you’re getting the point yeah that’s
that’s also I think in First Corinthians
three or two that we’re going to cover
the natural man’s an enemy to God uh and
so yes I would agree with that that we
by our own flesh and will and ways we’re
not going to do the things of God so
absolutely what will we do we will serve
ourselves what Idol is there self yeah
so the spiritual woman will always turn
to well try to always turn to God yeah
so the natural man yeah that because the
natural man makes Idols of everything
yeah all right great questions guys
thanks everyone keep hting them okay by
