Faith without religion.
Unveiling the Spiritual Kingdom: Exploring Misconceptions and Truths in the Bible
resurrection, faith, importance
In a recent episode of a YouTube series, Shawn and Delaney McCraney delve into various theological questions, offering insights and interpretations on complex biblical topics. The discussion kicks off with the parable of the ten virgins from Matthew 25, where Shawn clarifies that the virgins are more akin to bridesmaids rather than literal fiancées, a point often misinterpreted by some religious groups. He emphasizes that the model for marriage should be based on the Garden of Eden, advocating for a monogamous union.
The conversation shifts to the doctrine of salvation, where Shawn addresses the works-based salvation of the LDS Church, contrasting it with other Christian denominations. He explains his focus on Mormonism due to its pronounced emphasis on works, while acknowledging his evolving understanding of other faiths over the years.
A significant portion of the discussion is dedicated to the doctrine of the Trinity. Shawn expresses his rejection of the traditional Trinitarian view, which he considers heretical, while still affirming the existence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He argues that many people misunderstand the Trinity, and his perspective aims to clarify these misconceptions.
The episode also touches on the disciples’ understanding of the Kingdom of God, highlighting their initial belief in a material kingdom. Shawn explains that after the Holy Spirit’s arrival, the disciples’ understanding shifted towards a spiritual kingdom, aligning with Jesus’ teachings.
Throughout the episode, Delaney provides a fresh perspective, representing a younger generation’s curiosity and skepticism. The McCraneys encourage viewers to share the series with younger audiences, aiming to bridge generational gaps in understanding faith and scripture. As they prepare for future episodes and projects, they invite viewers to continue exploring these theological discussions with them.
Podcast Transcript:
I don’t get the Bible I don’t get it
either okay more
Q&A um ah Sterling says I wondered about
the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew
25 who are waiting for the
bridegroom figuratively I suppose they
are members of The Faith from that age
which is about to come to an end but I
guess some polygamous Christian offit
offshoots would re would readily
misinterpret these passages in an
exploitative Way for their own good they
could see the virgins as literal
simultaneous fiance but were they I
would think of them as bridesmaids in a
wedding more so what’s your opinion and
could there be such misapplications in
the
flds groups first of all it’s troubling
when a father hears their daughter say
offit it’s like a command she uses is to
well-dressed men offit
offit uh I do
though see see what I have to
endure okay listen uh the parable of tin
virgins you’re right it was uh picturing
the uh coming great and Dreadful day it
was a a parable of that the word uh
virgins doesn’t necessarily means a a
woman who hasn’t had sex it usually does
or can but it also Alma is the name of
the uh is the Hebrew word for Virgin and
it means a uh young Maiden so and
Delaney pointed out uh that these are
bridesmaids and they’re there and that’s
what the whole thing is now fds and the
LDS when I was young these leaders would
borrow from that and they would try to
tie in polygamy so you’re right but
bottom line you want the model for
marriage forget all those polygamy junk
just look at the Garden of Eden there’s
your marriage that’s how it works you
want to do it God’s way it’s one man
it’s one woman it’s sort of insane that
that’s when I think about it that that
is used as a reason to get married to
them there’s 10
virgins waiting for to come I read it as
coming into the like coming into the
party yeah well why are they there why
do they have the lamps they’re not fian
they want to interpret that they are you
can use Bible to interpret anything yeah
it’s terrible what we call ex aesus it’s
a terrible ex aesus of the
scripture it’s weird to call it ex Jesus
because Jesus
exus it’s Jesus it’s not Jesus ex
Jesus okay I’m gonna start calling it ex
of
Jesus ex of
Yeshua ex ex
yes that’s funny Jacob asks Jakob the
heel
catcher Sean I’m watching season one of
Heart Of The Matter on YouTube I Love
How You contend so boldly with the false
Gospel of the LDS but I notice an
alarming
pattern when and I hate the word
alarming when you talk about the LDS and
their doctrine of salvation via
obedience to laws and ordinances your
right to your right to point out
that it is a work salvation and contrary
to the gospel of grace yet when non-lds
self-proclaimed Christians add Works to
the gospels such as baptism Sacrament
Etc you quickly change your tone and
talk about how we shouldn’t separate the
church over trivial matters and say only
God himself can know if indeed the
doctrine is
heretical why do you sweep the false
gospels of the Catholic Church Church of
Christ Etc under the rug and justify
them when Paul so vly warns us
of the Wolves who preach other gospel
and another
Jesus simply put uh Jacob it’s a good
question uh I came into doing Heart Of
The Matter here on live TV straight out
of and while I was still in the uh
Calvary Chapel School of ministry under
Chuck Smith and I kind of go where I’m
at I don’t try to do anything but what I
believe and know at the time and so you
saw me then come right while I’m still
in a scho School of ministry learning
the Bible you saw me addressing what I
had been taught and it made sense and I
still believe that that the LDS church
is a a gospel that is Works based one of
the reasons I focus on that and not on
Catholics and not on certain Baptists or
these other people who also have Works
based is because nobody is more Works
based than the Mormons that’s one reason
I mean you want to compare what the
Mormons want to put their people under
to do compared to the Catholics and
everybody else it’s night and day okay
that’s one reason but the more important
reason is I was young and I didn’t know
everything else and so what happened was
we went from 2006 to 2013 and then I
started to see the works baseness that
was put upon Christians in Christian
churches around December of 2012 when I
saw that we made an announcement got
kicked off the air and we went from 200
13 to 2023 studying and examining and
looking at everything and in fact this
is uh opportunistic for our audience if
you’re tuning into this in uh May of
2024 first week we are going to relaunch
Heart Of The Matter we’re calling it
Heart Of The Matter full circle and it
means that I went from addressing
Mormonism from that perspective to
finding out everything I possibly could
about the faith and now we’re going to
return to that and we’re going to talk
to it with more consistency more uh
equinity more balanced approach and make
sure that we don’t treat the LDS any
differently than the rest of these
religious
morons all right
awesome
um yeah it seems like Jacob doesn’t know
your history and you and
in addition to Heart of the matter being
released in May he also has a bunch of
teachings at cult. love and um yesin
yesin even via Shan mccr that you Shan
mc.com that you could look up and learn
about the New Perspective and how it’s
it’s really far from season one of heart
of the matter I I mean we’ve done so
much work uh together to get this ready
over time that we l literally are like a
worldwide conglomerate so to speak in
that under the title we’re going to fly
in May for everybody you’re going to go
to that site and you’re going to see all
the different things that you can choose
from to help understand what we’ve
learned in those 10 years of still
searching to find out what’s going on
yeah we’ll explain more about that
later
awesome Kyle has a
question hi I was watching the podcast C
and believe it was episode 7 Sean makes
a comment saying he held a heretical
view of the Trinity I can’t tell if this
is a joke or not so I’d like to ask for
Clarity on Sean’s thoughts and
understanding of the doctrine of the
Trinity thanks and have a great day
great question when I said the uh
heretical view of the Trinity I meant
that the the trinitarian view is
heretical that it is heresy it is
heretical to what Jesus the Bible taught
and I have all all sorts of endless
evidences for it but that’s what I meant
by the heretical view of the Trinity the
problem with the Trinity is I do believe
there’s one God as the trinitarians say
and I do believe that there is father
and there is Son and there’s Holy Spirit
like the trinitarians say and I do
believe that Jesus is God With Us was
God with us as the trinitarians say so I
don’t dismiss any of that and that
Muddy’s the waters the problem is
trinitarian also
classically in a scholarly way
represents something that I absolutely
reject and that is what is heretical and
what I mean by that is that father son
Holy Spirit are three distinct
co-eternal
gods that make up the one God okay I
reject that notion completely all right
so that’s why I I I reject and and
credal
trinitarians they’re Scholars
know that that’s what I’m rejecting but
the people think I’m rejecting three or
that Jesus was God and you you were you
said something about that that uh
disconnect in the world about how the
Trinity is one thing but that the people
don’t even know what it is yeah I feel
like maybe to put it simply
like I understand your view of the
Trinity to be what most people assume
the Trinity means right
but the doctrine of the Trinity that
Scholars rely on is something that if
most people who claim they believe in
the Trinity heard they would be like I
don’t believe that it’s like I feel like
your uh rejection of the Trinity is like
clarifi is just
clarifying what the Trinity actually is
for people or what they think the trity
is they think it is and by the way my
daughter here who uh is just learning a
lot she coincides right with James White
you know today’s best scholar on the
Trinity uh he says the same thing he sat
right there on a stage in this building
and said people don’t know what the
Trinity is so what the heck are you
enforcing it on them for oh and then he
said people believe the Trinity is what
I say then why are you trying to fix it
you one guy making everybody uh you know
bull it doesn’t exist yeah it’s really
weird yeah good point and people
yeah normal people who aren’t Scholars
that hold on to the Trinity so much it’s
pretty gnarly that they call you out all
you got to do is question know what it
is they won’t even know what it is it’s
like okay um sorry one of the great
questions to ask uh someone who says oh
you don’t believe in the Trinity then
then you’re not a Christian you’re not
saved the question I would ask them
right out the gate and they could answer
it if they’re smart but if they’re not
I’d say what are you going to see when
you die
what do you you get access to God you go
to heaven what are you going to see
that’s what I want to know yeah one God
three-headed monster because
three-headed monster is really where the
Trinity comes from are you going to see
a three-headed that’s how they actually
painted the Trinity was one body with
three heads go anciently is that what
you’re going to see okay then I don’t
agree with that God but they don’t know
how to answer that question oh see who’s
on the throne
is Jesus next to him where’s the Holy
Spirit you know they can’t answer just
reasonable simple questions another
question is what existed before
everything oh forget that cuz Don’t They
isn’t that a big thing of Trinity is the
physical body of Jesus has always
existed like before yeah because they
said he was in a spiritual body as the
independent person God the son that ex
God the Holy Spirit
God the Father three always existing
co-eternal equal persons right so then
you say what are you going to see when
you die and they
just okay well Matt says will you make
your episodes longer no 30 minutes at
least please 21 minutes max that’s nice
of you to ask though Matthew because you
care and you like our information thank
you Matthew see how sweet the the
feminine role brings to this it is nice
I’m tempted to do that yeah cuz Delaney
and I’m sorry this is this is faking
because we did this before but Delany
what did I always say to you when you
were younger about going to parties I
don’t know what did you tell us
I lost to show up first to leave boom
boom you don’t want people bored you
want to keep them going with good
information and get out 30 minutes with
the Lany little bit
long I’m just kidding it’s true though
okay um Sterling asks Sterling asks acts
1112 what did you say
a I am really offended right now God
okay Sterling asks
axe ask the book that’s the first word
of the question acts 1:12 talks about a
Sabbath day Journey
away a Sabbath day Journey away is it
some kind of mockery what distinguishes
a Sabbath’s day Journey from a random
Day’s Journey the distance that could be
traveled should be the same but in
theory real travel would count as work
which is forbidden on a Sabbath day so
then What’s the phrase for the phrase uh
refers back to a place where God said
you can travel uh this far and we think
that it was probably an addition by the
Jews to the law but it could be actually
stated in uh Leviticus I can’t I don’t
know that all I know is that it’s in
proximity to the Tabernacle so the Jews
would build a tabernacle okay it would
be the center and then they would encamp
around it with three tribes three tribes
three tribes and three tribes by the way
that’s a cross have you ever noticed
that they’re at the Sinners the
Tabernacle and you have three tribes of
the na nation of Israel and a Sabbath
Day’s Journey was how many footsteps it
would take for them to go and get back
by the way go and get back from their
homes to the Tabernacle and it was about
a mile right it said in the commentary
58 of a mile or a kilometer 58s of a
mile and that was a Sabbath Day’s
Journey any more than that was
considered work and therefore breaking
the Sabbath day does the so if they were
to walk that same distance in another
direction is that work too like was the
is a Sabbath Day’s Journey also like an
intention like they had to go to that
specific place I’m going answer off my
top of my head just based on principle
but I would say God intended it for it
to be you know this is where you travel
on the Sabbath day to the Tabernacle and
back okay later I think that they extrap
ated that and then the Jew said you can
go anywhere as long as that’s not longer
than that yeah got it that makes
sense okay Sterling also
asked I’m open to think that the
statement in John
3:35 The Father loves his son and has
given all things into his hand pertains
to the resurrected and ascended Yeshua
but Matthew who reports the words of
Yeshua who is still living with them
saying all things have been handed over
to me by my father in Matthew
11:27 so if he wasn’t completely
empowered in his flesh then why did he
say
so there’s a lot to uh include in this
and I’m going to try to make it short
the Jews
talked in a way that is not like us they
talked more like a complex film where
you would get the early ideas the later
ideas you get them all at once it’s not
chronological so when Jesus was on Earth
and he would say things sometimes he
would speak in the terms of outside time
and space he would be talking about what
God has done from the foundation of the
world sometimes it would be in
association with his Incarnation being
in flesh and being with them when if you
try to just take one approach and make
it make sense it’ll never happen that’s
why we misunderstand the Bible so so
much is because we don’t understand the
way they
communicated and let me I just sorry but
I just feel like I have to say this in
the Old Testament way after God created
Adam and Eve and the nation and Abraham
Isaac and Jacob and everything else it
says that God uh established the heavens
and the
Earth and put the nation of Israel
created the nation of Israel under it
this was after God created the heavens
and the Earth that we all see why
because they talked of it as an economy
if you can’t get these nuances you’re
going to ask questions like what he’s
saying why was Jesus saying that all
things have been put into his hand
before he died it’s because sometimes
Jesus speaks to uh uh things that
haven’t happened as if they had and
sometimes he speaks in real time like
he’ll say something that’s like a
statement about what it will be like in
100 AD after he’s returned or yeah he
could say anything yeah and you have to
try to understand the context of the
Hebrews and what he was really saying I
the only thing it brought up a question
that
like specifically something like your
argument on is it Revelation where it’s
there he’s coming quickly or no it’s
Matthew Matthew 24 where he us quickly
quicker quicker yeah that’s all through
the New Apostolic record where he’ll use
words and terms like yeah but that’s
like very
literal yeah and that’s Jesus talking
Jesus and his Apostles all talking using
quicker at hand
shorter now in the Greek words
progressively as we got closer and
closer to Revelation being given so
you’re able to do that and like
understand that really literally because
it’s in this like large context of like
you see it escalating yeah
and something like this one where
it’s
um you know the father loves the son is
given it’s like a one single instance of
a phrase that he said it’s like hard to
place and so we don’t know so it’s
aoristic and that’s why
exes is difficult and that’s why we have
10 billion different interpretations of
scripture and so you’re right there are
times when you read certain things and
you have to say that’s applicable to the
day and time of that age you have to
make that decision and then there are
times when you have to say he’s talking
outside of time and space he’s doing
something else there what helps you to
make those determinations context of 30
verses before 30 verses after and all of
that it has to come in as you read it if
you want to understand it if you don’t
you are going to stand on things as
literal and and it becomes such a
problem yeah okay good question
Delaney
Sterling good question
Sterling um last question for today
Sterling asks
Sterling the disciples ask the
resurrected and returned Yeshua
according to acts
1:6 Lord will you at this time restore
the kingdom to Israel oh I love this
question don’t you think that they still
instinctually think of a big Victorious
Earthly Kingdom a theocracy which
prevails over the superior power of the
Roman Empire
absolutely yes they did and they were
under that impression while Jesus was
with them after Jesus died even in Acts
one they’re asking him now are you going
to bring the kingdom we’ve been talking
about proving the kingdom wasn’t there
yet did you catch that yeah it wasn’t
there yet when will the apostles learn
that they’ve had the
misguided idea of what the kingdom was
after the Holy Spirit Falls this was
before that they asked him that question
after that Bing the Holy Spirit brings
in the reality and so what they start
doing is saying you better prepare
yourself the Kingdom’s coming and they
were able to take everything Jesus
taught about that end time and put it
into context and we don’t see them
talking about when’s the kingdom no more
the spirit is what opened them up to the
truth wait I’m this might be really
stupid but you’re saying they are asking
when the when the Kingdom’s going to
come the Holy Spirit like falls on them
and then they say the Kingdom’s coming
mhm wouldn’t that mean that they are
saying the material kingdoms coming no
do you know what I mean they they knew
it was in harmony with how he described
his kingdom which is synonymous with his
return okay so he’s about to ascend and
they’re saying when when is it going to
come when is this Kingdom going to come
I think there they still thought it was
a material Kingdom to fight against the
rest of the world and emancipate uh
Jerusalem from the Roman armies and
everything else like Sterling’s asking
yeah what indicates that after when they
say the king they start to realize when
the Holy Spirit Falls and they realize
and they start preaching what indicates
to you that they know it’s not that
material thing anymore because uh well
Paul will say it’s not yet it’s not yet
the Kingdom’s coming but it’s not yet so
through Paul we know they weren’t
expecting this same Kingdom to arrive
they also seem to be pointing to in
their language this future day that
coincided with the arrival of the
Kingdom and The Return of Christ to
Reign and take his bride they understood
that by the spirit as Apostles as
evidence by the fact that we don’t have
any more of these questions about wins
the kingdom it’s get ready the kingdom
is on its way do does that make sense
sort of it’s it’s it’s difficult but the
of the Kingdom it’s very hard for me to
keep in my brain yeah like it is a
there’s different ones sorry mean to
yeah yeah there was the the kingdom of
the nation of Israel they were a kingdom
they had a King David and it was a
material Kingdom and Jesus came in that
vein and so the Jews thought we’re going
to have another material Kingdom King
Jesus is going to wipe out our enemies
but they put him to death on a cross
like a reprobate so like he wasn’t the
Messiah the Jews are still waiting for
that Messiah to show up Bad Religion
sings When the only true Messiah rescues
us from from ourselves that’s when he’s
going to come back they’re waiting
they’re waiting ignoring that he came
and he instituted a spiritual Kingdom
Under a new Heaven A New Earth with a
New Jerusalem and it’s all spiritual
that’s the difference it hadn’t arrived
yet it was going to commence in full at
the same time Jesus returned do
Christians now that are still waiting
for his return are they like the
disciples where they think it’s going to
be material or many of them do they’re
waiting for like Jews uh I don’t know
the Jews still think that they probably
do because they’re the ultimate material
religion but second line is the Mormons
the Mormons are Latter Day Saints they
are preparing the Earth for the material
arrival of the Messiah to come back and
establish his kingdom on this Earth
materially so they it’s literally the
same as the Jews literally the same
current state
chisti andw
are the matalom to come back except
Christians Think Jesus is going to bring
it and Jews think the guy hasn’t come to
bring it same thing and Mormons lead the
pack on that idea of a material Kingdom
okay and but there are some Christians
that aren’t
pedist or fulfillment people that think
it’s a spiritual
there’s got to be and I not studied on
what those who Embrace that are but
there’s got to be okay there’s too many
uh believers who would be able to
understand the scriptures who aren’t
fulfillment people okay yeah yeah okay
but my evidence for the kingdom being
entirely spiritual and not physical is
from the scripture because God in
Jeremiah says he’ll write on the hearts
and minds and he’ll say no man will say
no the lord well that’s not material and
the writer of Hebrew says Hey listen
everything is going to be shaken in the
former Kingdom so that the only thing
that remains cannot be shaken well if
it’s material men can be shaken Doctrine
buildings their priesthood all of that
can be shaken just like the Jews was but
a spiritual Kingdom founded in a new
Heaven and new earth with a New
Jerusalem can’t be touched the writer of
Hebrews also says in Hebrews 9:6 that
this Kingdom cannot fully come until the
former Kingdom is gone till the former
Tabernacle is gone that’s what it says
okay well that Tabernacle was leveled
gone in 70 AD by the Roman armies so
what do uh futurists say today
Christians let’s rebuild that Temple we
got to rebuild the material Temple you
know and they have this whole Mythos
growing to do that and they’re all about
it and they’re sending money to Israel
to support Israel so that’s why the
Christian right is so for Israel
destroying Hamas today and we have this
complete thing still existing but it’s
all false
yeah wild
wow that is that episode hey it was a
good one too it was a good one we do him
again maybe
so good maybe and to
Matthew’s happiness I never know how to
use the word shagrin but to Matthew
shagrin does that mean he’s happy no
really bued out well to not to Matthew
chin uh we’re at 27 minutes on this
episode Matthew we’ve tried to
accommodate you and we do love you guys’
questions we’re grateful you’re even
interested in at least this idiot I know
you’d be interested in her but we’re
grateful that you’re interested in this
podcast and we hope you’ll share it with
other people especially young people
because my daughter represents a
generation and she’s honest she’s like I
don’t get it I don’t know if I believe
it I’m not sure this doesn’t make sense
this is that generation and this is why
this is so important send it to your
grandkids to your kids to these this
generation because she represents them
she’s the mouth for them and I think
she’s a pretty damn good
representative there’s a lot coming in
the next several months so keep an eye
out hang on with us it’s unfolding as we
speak see you later
