Faith without religion.
Navigating the Paradoxes of Faith: A Deep Dive into the Bible with Shawn and Delaney McCraney
Bible, Paul, Unity
In a recent discussion, Shawn and Delaney delved into the complexities of interpreting biblical teachings and the role of scripture in understanding God’s will. They explored the idea of the “reconciliationist approach,” which emphasizes the peace and mutual trust between God and humanity, as promised in Matthew 5:9. Shawn explained that this approach is rooted in the belief that God has already reconciled the world to Himself, as stated in 2 Corinthians 5.
The conversation also touched on the controversial topic of the Trinity and polytheism. Shawn, who does not adhere to the traditional Trinitarian view, argued for a monotheistic understanding of God, likening God’s expressions to different traits rather than separate deities. This perspective aligns with the belief that God is one, a view shared by Jews and Muslims.
Delaney raised thought-provoking questions about the necessity and impact of the Bible, suggesting that its compilation might not have been divinely mandated. Shawn acknowledged the paradox of relying on scripture while emphasizing the importance of the Holy Spirit in guiding believers to love and selflessness. They agreed that while the Bible offers valuable insights, it is ultimately the Spirit that leads individuals to embody agape love.
The discussion highlighted the challenges of balancing religious teachings with personal faith and the importance of allowing individuals to explore their beliefs freely. Shawn expressed his commitment to supporting his family in their spiritual journeys, emphasizing love and acceptance over rigid adherence to doctrine. This open and honest dialogue serves as a reminder of the complexities of faith and the ongoing quest for understanding and connection with the divine.
Podcast Transcript:
thanks
I wonder if they hear that
it says recording in progress really
loud when we start I know but I didn’t
have to click that time oh
you’ve already consented
okay next is still doing Q A’s this is
round two we’ll probably have a round
three as well
um
so here’s the first one
blessed are the peacemakers who they
shall be called sons of God Matthew 5 9.
isn’t it another condensed definition of
the reconciliationist approach
speaking about those who recognize and
in their life set in motion the fact
that after and by the eschatological
eventful first century man
and God had returned into the mutual
trust and love of each other I did not
read that well did you get that question
okay because they noticed this restored
peace and potentially spread it as well
see Matthew 5 14. that’s the whole thing
I can reread that I did not read that
one what is this how’s this question
start off though
and it says blessed are the peacemakers
for they shall be called sons of God
isn’t this another condensed definition
yeah I think it is another condensed
definition I think it is worldwide there
is a
yeah I would say yes to that question
yes
speaking about those who recognize the
fact that after and by the
eschatological eventful first century
man
and God had returned into the mutual of
trust and love of each other
can you explain this a little bit more
what’s the reconciliationist approach
uh that’s the approach that we take it’s
uh it’s a reconcile bit and it’s based
off second Corinthians five where this
Paul literally says God has
reconciled duh past tense the world to
himself
and the reconciled senses God is not
full of Wrath he’s it’s over it’s done
his son did it all right that questioner
is saying is Well if you look at the
eschatology which is the Fulfillment of
everything necessary in the first
century by Christ through the nation of
Israel its destruction is taking his
bride has that peace that is Promised in
Matthew 5 9 has that peace does it play
a part is it present in this fulfillment
View and that’s why my answer is yes
um
and so uh uh our brother Grady it might
even be great you wrote that I don’t
know but he believes that the the world
is better now than it has ever been and
that all began very slowly and
incrementally after the death
resurrection and return of Christ that
the world as a whole has been getting
better and that is such a contrary view
to the Christian view which is we’re
going to hell in a hand basket but
reality the material betterness of our
world is supreme the material betterness
is growing and getting better
spiritually we’re still corrupt you know
but we are we as a world have greater
sensitivities uh now than we ever had in
the past in the past women were willing
to put their children to death by fire
and and all kinds of horrible things
those things are almost non-existent
except in third world you know
country so I I think that the answer to
that is yes that peace is coming and is
growing within us it’s not the ultimate
peace but it is a peace but and you
think that peace is growing materially
but not it’s a material Improvement of
this world
yeah uh we we heal things that we
couldn’t heal before
we
suffered with their whole life
materially God has blessed see he’s a
blesser but what people don’t know and
understand is that he has spiritually
redeemed too and that’s the greater
thing because that goes on forever the
improvements here are just improvements
for here but the I mean the approach to
God is
better
like the spiritual art the whole stage
from save two thing is a condition now
so I it would there is an argument that
spiritually direct
post-reconciliation is also better oh
yeah yeah definitely but I mean in the
reception of it
for our material blessings grow because
God is good and he doesn’t want this
world to suffer the more it grows the
less human beings see a need for him
they think they have that you know so
spiritually as a human race we aren’t
really progressing much that’s why fewer
and fewer are finding it or want it and
just to know I saw something that said
Jen Jen
Z is the first post-christian generation
I believe it like that less our
Christian in the majority or whatever
than ever before and like and they’re a
miserable lot yeah
sorry Jen’s ears it’s pretty interesting
I I didn’t I’ve never heard it said like
that but and that’s what I meant by the
spiritual is declining I mean man
worship and uh that’s what we have
okay next question
very short
I was wondering and wanted to understand
it’s not a full question that’s why it’s
short I was wondering and wanted to
understand the Christian point of view
on the following matter and then it just
stops there
I’m sorry if we call those uh
he uh resubmitted I just started reading
too early on the last one here’s the
full question
uh hey it’s Muhammad here I was
wondering about the Christian point of
view on the following matter one is
polytheism the most Grievous sin of
Christianity since it is in Islam
two I apologize in advance and I hope
this won’t offend you but I just want to
hear the Christian take on the following
statement do you agree that the Trinity
is based is basically polytheism since
there are three deities involved if not
can you explain why not plenty of things
in advance
yeah I would agree contextually speaking
if you really take the Old Testament uh
and what Jesus says there is nothing
worse in all of Christianity than
multiple gods or uh idolatry because
anything that’s not the real God would
be considered idolatry so if a Christian
doesn’t concur with that with the with a
Muslim that Christian is probably off
because God I mean that’s everything you
know he can deal with our fleshly sins
but when your spirit yearns or
relationship with non-god that first of
all so yes Muhammad I would agree with
that secondly I have no
skin in the game on Trinity uh ball
atheism they will say all kinds of
things to defend against polytheism uh
in that their stance is one God not
three and they repeat that and yet they
preach three deities and so it’s really
difficult to escape that charge and so
that’s why I am firm in one God one God
but just like I am one man I have many
expressions in myself and I believe the
one God has two perfect Expressions male
and female uh and so not persons so we
get away from the deity bit but we just
have traits or characteristics male and
female is the one God that’s how we
that’s how we yeshuans see it
um uh it should it should be clarified
that I don’t know if Muhammad knows that
you’re explicitly not trinitarian I
don’t think he understands yeah so tell
him well he’s he has done plenty of
teachings that you can access actually
one available on the on YouTube
about the Trinity in particular but
um he’s not trinitarian and understands
it as being as confusing as you’re
identifying in your question so yes yes
you
Jews and and
Christians should be able to get along
because we all are supposedly
monotheists unfortunately Christians
make it really difficult by embracing
that Hellenistic idea of of uh Trinity
is there some way I I personally kind of
liken the idea of God as fire coming
into other people
I know that
the ontology of it is that he’s one but
like polytheism kind of can look like
that sometimes
like I can’t but it no polytheism that’s
the problem is polytheism does not to
embrace your fire concept that’s called
uh monarchal monarchal sibelianism and
and uh but your view is far more
consistent with the biblical view the
fire view when it comes to Christ and
the Holy Spirit
trinitarian view of three persons
right right yeah yeah but so but
polytheists also take personalities and
don’t make them all the same fire
they will take the God of this and the
god of that and they make them separate
person that’s what makes them
polytheistic
so
God being in a person
and that person
the the difference is that that one the
different expressions of God in these
different places as fire are all
consistent polytheism it’s that they are
not consistent with one another yeah
that’s the sort of the issue yes they
have their own personality there’s a lot
of this and that’s what they do they are
you know and that is separate from the
one God
okay
how much have you studied polytheism
or like because I came from Mormonism
which
is declared by Christians to be
polytheistic but it’s really anotheistic
which Mormons believe they have a god
of many but they don’t give any
recognition to the many they just have
the one God that’s called hinotheism
but henotheism still admits other gods
of equal power
and the Christian view and the Muslim
view in the Jewish view is truly there’s
one God
there’s no sharing of power it’s one God
yeah okay
well that’s a good question Muhammad
keep saying really good
okay let’s move on to the next
um
just checking the time we’re about 10
minutes in now
okay I sent some conflicts between
Matthew 7 22 to 23 which says
on that day many will say to me Lord
Lord be not prophesy in your name and
cast out demons in your name and do many
mighty works in your name and then I
will declare to them I never knew you’d
depart from me you workers of
lawlessness
and also the conflict between Matt Mark
9 38 through 40 which says John said to
him teacher we saw someone casting out
demons in your name and we tried to stop
him because he was not following us but
Jesus said do not stop it and for no one
will
for no one who does the mighty work in
my name will be able to soon afterwards
speak evil with me
oh boy baby I can hear yeah wait there’s
a little bit more can I finish this one
I’m sorry I’m sorry no it’s okay
um I as if the former undermined the
latter maybe in the former the accent on
the unsubstantiated word when the
speaker doesn’t want to talk is
or does it with braggadocio
um but I’m asking for a second opinion
sorry go ahead
yeah I mean any of these passages that
without question are paradoxical
that Jesus was a paradox
as James White calls me a walking
contradiction
he sent some things in some places and
he said things in it and and but that
makes sense when you consider the
maturity level and the intelligence of
the audience
talking to a bunch of fifth graders and
you’re being quoted and then you’re
talking to a bunch of PhD students and
you’re being quoted you’re not going to
use the same language and you’re going
to use different examples depending on
the audience
both places are correct that’s what
makes Jesus paradoxical he’s not
contradictory he’s correct so he right
anybody in that day who’s like Lord Lord
we did many wonderful works and cast out
demons in your names and they’ll say I
didn’t know you he’s talking about
people who do religious Works who don’t
have the heart they are just they’re
just doing things trying to earn their
salvation and they aren’t really true to
him on the other hand John saw a guy who
literally had a heart for Jesus who
loved him and was doing things in his
name and there Jesus is don’t worry
about the organizational part of it if
he’s not against us he’s for it leave
him alone so you take context to decide
how to interpret if you don’t you will
come up with a with a lot of conflict in
your mind about Jesus and his teachings
to some degree I feel like the Bible
shouldn’t exist
do you think
do you think that ever
um
it’s like everything Delaney but what
you just said is profound it’s profound
because
um it’s true in one sense it’s so true
and you would be taken out in the 1500s
and hung on a post and burned for saying
that you really would okay but you’re
right because God has never intended for
us to be able to be lawyers to discern
properly that word perfectly and so in
some ways it shouldn’t exist if people
would have let his Spirit Reign Over
them but they don’t so he gives us a
little gift and he says let me show you
some principles here that you got to
consider about what I really like and
appreciate and so we have the book we
have the map
some people take it and they start
worshiping it just like anything God
gives men turn it bad so on the one hand
you’re right we don’t even need the damn
thing in fact most of the world hasn’t
had the thing and there have been people
who enter into the kingdom saved from
and saved too
the gift to help us sort of
see what he’s done over the history and
give us real principles that we follow
by the spirit not the law what you’re
saying to your audience is this has
caused more problems than anything else
sometimes I think we should just throw
the thing away but I will die but also
like it just doesn’t seem like some of
this should have even been recorded
well I mean that’s in your mind because
your mind says I can make it easier to
but I guess in God’s mind Free Will
expression everything has to be there so
people can I don’t know I don’t know his
mind but his mind is better than ours
and he says okay it’s just go ahead ah
no I guess I just I don’t I don’t
I’m realizing right now I’m unclear on
if there was like a command
we’ve talked about this I know but there
was a command to write this stuff down I
know there was to send to
the small group of people they weren’t
intended for there wasn’t a command to
collect them
that wasn’t God’s instruction right
I don’t see any kind I mean how how
would there be a command to collect them
unless you give that command
a Heavenly Authority
and lets you do that post 70 A.D then
you’re talking about organized religion
being in power
and and we don’t believe that so we know
I’ve never heard anybody really say God
except unless they’re extreme commanded
the Good Men of 1220 to start to gather
I’ve never read that anywhere
you know we just do it thinking that the
records were written so we should
collect them
you’re you’re really dead on this when
you say that but at the same time the
book does give a lot of insight to help
us clarify what he is talking about
how would we know if we didn’t have any
sort of written word
how to understand certain principles
yeah I guess I’m I’m In conflict with
that idea though and also it being the
Living Word because it feels like it’s
just a book that’s like really
important and influential and like what
had God’s hand in it in the original
writings but like the collection of it
is just a book and it isn’t for us and
so it being live it could be as living
as another book that he’s had a hand in
writing see I could not disagree with
that
you can’t disagree with us look I cannot
disagree with that
but
it’s like a
you can’t disagree with it
but
are there reasons that we don’t
understand for it being there that
aren’t incorporated into that view yeah
there just are
so it’s very it’s another paradox
because we aren’t supposed to go by
written words we’re supposed to go by
the spirit so why do we have the written
words well men decided to do that did
God allow it he did does it help well
maybe does it hurt yes so we have it’s
difficult to just say though no or yes
so I agree the Holy Spirit when it’s
moving upon someone who has learned and
known God and gives their will to him
you could read Les Miserables and be
inspired by the principles therein as
much okay but the problem is how do you
get to the place where you’re willing to
give God that trust and have the spirit
operate in you yeah come by learning
something about him and that’s where the
this Bible comes in but isn’t I feel
like
learn you are learning about him and
reading Les Miserables
you can learn about him and principles
of him but can you be sure for instance
Victor Hugo one of my favorite authors
I’ve read most of his Major Works uh
Victor Hugo he uh he had so many
prostitutes that he visited it had
something to do with his funeral they
they couldn’t have there wasn’t enough
room for him or something like that
so you take Victor Hugo and you take the
principles of of that are led by the
spirit that move you that are there of
forgiveness and long-suffering was Jean
Valjean okay you Embrace that but then
he also slides some stuff in there that
is not godly but so did the disciples I
mean the disciples were not perfect no
they they weren’t perfect but what they
the spirit they wrote by was the word of
God giving them instruction on how to
speak that’s what we trust about the
Bible Victor Hugo was writing by the
inspiration of the tree of knowledge of
Good and Evil which is
impressive to us it’s emotional it’s so
emotional so I it’s it’s the question is
does the work give you
the right insights
and if red contextually I maintained
that book does and if read by the spirit
that book does if you read Les
Miserables
it will not give you the correct Insight
uh when read by the spirit because it’s
not containing the spiritual words right
but it could I guess I
I’m trying to get out the question that
was just asked where there are
contradictions
that arise from
the abstraction of Jesus into writing
where all the context is not given
and
and then there’s faulty people writing
it
even though it’s by the spirit so it’s
like I mean you write your books by the
spirit I would say love it’s not you
know a lot of it’s not
um I think your point let’s just try to
just keep on it linearly your point is
it seems like we don’t even need the
Bible
or I it was incorrect to put it together
not that we don’t need it like I’m I’m a
witness right now to it being effective
in my life like it’s doing something to
me okay like
other things do things to me too it’s
just that there’s something oh wait so
let’s stop on that so where do the
things lead you to be like in your life
as you read them
um
I mean
it’s really just that it’s opening me to
consider God in ways that I didn’t
before right
and and if and when that takes effect
what you will effectively do if you read
it right by the spirit is you’ll love
others and him more than yourself
okay
now if you can take another book and it
accomplishes without fail in context and
I can stand on that because I’ve done
the testing that most people haven’t
that you can without fail lead you to
self-deprecation
a sacrificial selfless insufferable
long-suffering love
then that would be a product of God when
it’s read by the spirit
but I have yet to see in all the
greatest books of literature any book
that doesn’t have at least one percent
off right one person is enough to be
this is why I don’t Embrace The Book of
Mormon is full of principles and a false
history of where it came from but it has
a couple elements in it that are
absolutely false
and so you buy the hunt 99 that’s true
and the one so what you’re saying is
Peter and Paul were false because they
were men what we say is that the spirit
because of their place caused them to
record the things they recorded but I
think also what you’re saying is that
you can’t really trust it and you can’t
there’s nothing in the scripture that
says trust every single word that was
written by Paul and Peter it’s all it
says in the scripture is that which is
inspired is of God not all that’s
written is of God but that which is
inspired so when the spirit moves you in
your spirit to be inspired to
selflessness you’ll know that that’s an
inspired version piece of information
but going back to your point I think
you’re right at the same time it’s maybe
we shouldn’t have even put that thing
together
no I’m the only trouble I have with what
you said is like I I like intellectually
believe or in my heart believe it but
intellectually like
look at the majority of people that read
the Bible as not being selflessly loving
so like in that we see that the reading
the Bible does not do it that is not our
savior
so but but the
the
litmus test for you is that the Bible
leads to love but it doesn’t for most
people it does for and then the excuse
is it’s by the spirit that you have to
read it and the spirit does it well
that’s what the Bible says it says you
can’t understand these things naturally
but I would argue that another book
written by the spirit and read by the
spirit would do the same thing at the
same percentage that the Bible does to
the people that read it do you know what
I mean I do but I would have an argument
with you on that because I would like to
see another book that has as many
Divergent authors
uh contextually bring forth a message
that when read contextually and by the
spirit
leads to Selfless Love I don’t know if a
booklet the bag that Gita the the Quran
certainly doesn’t that’s a law book The
Book of Mormon is a lot of law you know
a lot of loss to Old Testament so I have
yet to see something as miraculous as a
compilation of a bunch of people who
were called by Christ who wrote his
Apostles and their words not perfectly
but can convey to somebody who has the
same spirit in them the message God
wants them to know and I don’t think you
and I could understand I would never be
able to understand agape love if it
wasn’t for the New Testament never I
wouldn’t understand what it looks like
now I have that so to the opposition to
your argument I would say not having the
Bible would be such a shame because it
is a witness it’s not the witness but it
is a a witness that works to help people
who seek that’s the other part of it you
know
and the witness is the spirit
the witness is the spirit and that
spirit is God that’s Jesus it’s both and
that is the spirit and that’s why I
stand on forget about this
denominational doctrinal stuff you show
a Muslim who has the spirit of God in
them and they love like Jesus did
Monopoly to your denominationalism and
that is so reprehensible to Christians
now it makes it it’s the only thing that
makes sense to me because like
there are people that like there are
people that know what agape love is and
are not Scholars of the Bible so like
not even Christian yeah not Christian
they don’t even know I mean if we could
go back 100 years they don’t even know
the name Jesus and they are just why
because God left it in the hands of his
Spirit if G if it was left in the hands
of Jesus then Jesus would have to still
be here but the spirit was left and
Jesus said I’m gonna send you my spirit
now and that spirit that is his father’s
and his enters in and it does Greater
Works than Jesus ever did because it is
all over and it takes it to the heart of
people
so that has to be taken into effect too
into account too it’s so unfair the way
people have cast you and what you’re
doing because
the Christians want you to defer to the
Bible and all you do is teach the Bible
verse
that’s all you do and that’s not enough
for them but then the you are open
enough to say it’s not the hill to die
on the spirit
and that’s not enough for no you can
attack from every side because every
side
stand on the certainty they love black
and white which are opposite each other
I like color that there’s variances
because I think that’s what God is
people are black and white I like color
because I think that’s where you’re
gonna find truth
right and they don’t understand it so
you’re going to be greatly misunderstood
I mean it’s it’s not
we don’t you yourself have a really
strong handle on understanding it but
you’ll never fully understand and ending
no one so like it’s all by faith yeah so
how
please him
why cannot why would I ever say I know
something if knowing something doesn’t
make him happy
yeah
that’s so true he doesn’t care about our
knowledge that’s the tree of knowledge
he wants us to look to him and say I
believe you
you know I believe I I don’t know how
but I believe you
that is what is needed
and it’s hard it’s hard to believe
it’s just a belief it’s a belief for me
that
um
well it’s not the Bible gives as I say
it’s a belief to
rely on the Bible
yeah but like there are there are a lot
of evidences that prove it’s like
um useful at the very least like even
just personally as another book would be
but then there’s like way more evidence
it’s like you’re saying all the people
and the histories and
archeology I don’t I don’t honestly hand
to God I don’t care about those
evidences uh because no they can be
they’re debated endlessly right and it’s
also I think a weak form of faith and I
know that sounds like well you’re a
you’re a lunatic you’re a zealot what I
mean by that is I will pursue every
evidence in the scripture to see you
know make sure that we have so it’s not
just pulled out of somebody’s head
but the problem is Delaney is
um if you rely on a book to be full of
evidences you spend your life trying to
prove and disprove evidences I want
proofs and and and not no I don’t want
evidences I want proofs so where can I
find proofs you know people I mean
there’s been philosophers that said
there’s no such thing as approved so I
have to find my proof in something that
actually functions I can’t find it in a
philosophy or so I have to find it in
something that functions and when I see
that proof functioning I know that
person has tapped into the truth versus
tapped into the argument of black and
white and all that does that make sense
it’s the function of the spirit to make
us loving
so whether a person’s ever read that
book or is an expert in that book if
they’re loving they have what is
requisite
wow that is heavy I need to think about
that
it’s we miss that in religion yeah are
you the doctrine
that that has taken me a really long
time when you’re steeped in religion
that’s a really hard thing to understand
like I’m like just now hearing it yeah
from you in all this conversation I like
get it a little bit more but anyway I’m
just also I don’t read the Bible to be
able to cite where Jerusalem is and how
many miles it is from Judea I don’t care
about any of that I read it to see where
I’m wrong
and I read it to see what I need to
understand better and not to prove my
religion I don’t pull it out to prove my
religion I use it in order to see where
I’m at and if I’m and if I find
something that’s contrary to me then I
test it out and try to figure out what
so uh Grady our partner in Yeshua he he
has a great insight into this as well
and so does uh so does Adnan
we use the Bible but it is not to prove
we’re wrong and say the Bible says we’re
there to see if we’re on the right track
with how we live
that is really interesting isn’t it yeah
like articulated on my head but it
aligns with
yeah little lines it’s nice and what you
and I are doing here is really important
to that because you don’t understand and
it’s such a beautiful thing you don’t
understand
uh you know geographically neither do I
where everything is and you don’t
understand the culture and I don’t
really uh but the principles you’re
getting by the spirit and you’re
deciding is that principle Superior to
everything else my friends and family
and history and genetics say and you’re
deciding if that principle makes more
sense in your mind because you got to
worship him with your mind then
everything else that’s what you’re doing
well I appreciate you indulging it baby
I mean every like I said I uh my hat I
said it to you personally my hat’s off
to you because you’re a young lady
who is choosing to sit here on a
Saturday morning
you could be at coffee on the beach
right now with your friends talking
about last night’s party you could be
doing any of that and I know we have
times where we do that stuff but you’re
a young woman who is sitting there with
her old man who is like that’s all I’ve
done and and but I think it bodes well
to our witness to the world that uh
I have well I have three four I have six
Treasures eight Trek nine I have nine
Treasures in my life they’re my family
they you are an equal sized diamond in
the crown I wear as a man and I have
nine of those diamonds in my crown that
I stand before God with and he is the
crown he is the crown but in that Crown
are diamonds and I think it should tell
our audience something that as
deeply interested I am in God and the
word the Bible
I have allowed one of those diamonds two
of them three of them all of them to
figure this out
and not impose it upon you as something
you must do and have and be in order to
be a a good person or loved by me
religion tells parents to cut their
children off and if they don’t conform
make them pay that’s not the god I
worship and that’s proven in our
relationship I’m not boasting about it
it’s you are the product of what I
believe is important letting you figure
it out and choose and decide and grow on
your own and I’ve done that with all of
you I know Mom and I have slanted you in
some ways because those are my fears as
a human but in God I want you to have
freedom and I want to have the freedom
where you say you know Dad I don’t
believe any of this and I’m an atheist
and I would say I love you the same now
as if you were an atheist why because I
know my God loves you more and he
accepts you more than even I do and so
you have to understand
our God is a God who accepts and loves
and reaches for his children and doesn’t
look for ways to punish and hurt them he
looks for ways to help and guide them
and I trust that God and I will be like
that God to the nine most important
diamonds in my crown
what we’re recording here is more
important than the doctrinal stuff we
talk about
it’s it’s it’s it’s something that is
yours and mine that we’re sharing with
the world and we’re letting them come in
and it it’s like we are doing the uh
osbornes uh but we don’t have all this
Insanity we have just the word that
we’re talking about letting them see
it’s not perfect you know that’s what
this stuff’s about it’s not the
performance of these these social media
people to get views and stuff
I’m proud of you she’s going on a trip
to Ojai may she find a love swarthy
lover oh my gosh now
I’ll be intent of this
um
thank you for if it should be said to
the public that’s watching that
uh I have never felt like I could say
anything that would
like take away your love and I feel like
I’ve said it all
and it’s it’s so so
influential and like
functional like it functions
um
and has made for a really
hard but like worthwhile family Dynamic
and I’m so thankful
it’s much harder
yeah
it does
that’s such a good point you’re bringing
I know we’re going over time but you
know a family who ruled their their
their family with laws and shame and
guilt and you see the end product at the
end and to do it the other way is so
difficult like you said because there’s
a lot of fighting there’s a lot of anger
and there’s a lot of resistance because
that’s where growth is and you’re having
to choose to love each other so like you
said it is harder but that’s how the
gospel should be too in the lives of
people it shouldn’t be something that
takes over your life and you just live
this idyllic life here on Earth God it’s
you will wage war with your soul and
you’ll get into the dirt and you’ll
fight it to find out what’s right
so I love that
thanks baby
we’re way over that was like three
episodes worth but it’s okay no it
wasn’t two
good anyway are we done thank you we’ll
stop recording
do we have enough do we need to do
another
hold on let me stop
