Heart of the Matter – Seventeen Points IX

LIVE! From the “Mecca of Mormonism” – Salt Lake City, Utah – This is HEART OF THE MATTERTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. . . . “Where Mormonism meets biblical Christianity face to face.” Show 32 Seventeen Points – IX July 29th 2008

And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host. Do you have friends or relatives who aren’t able to receive the show? Have them go to HOTM.TV and they can watch it live from anywhere in the world through live streaming video! Also, beginning August 12th of this year, Heart of the Matter will be airing on AM 820 “The TRUTH” – a hot new 50,000 watt Christian radio station dedicated to sharing God’s Word with the wonderful people of Utah.

Announcements

Spread the Word Beginning August 12th from 8pm to 9pm, Heart of the Matter will be airing on AM 820 The Truth! Really excited about that.

Last night we had a wonderful turn out at Life Way Christian Book store in Layton for a book signing. Support this Christian bookstore – and those in your neighborhood with your patronage. “I was a Born-Again Mormon” is available through Lifeway Christian Books in Layton, New Life Christian Books in Murray, Oasis Books in Logan, Gift of Grace in Springville, Christian Gift and Bible in Sandy, Sam Weller’s downtown, Dolly’s books in Park City, and through UTLM located across from first base near Franklin Field or at UTLM.org. You can always come to our website to get a book without a charge IF you are in financial straights and can’t afford it.

Hey, have you marked it on your calendar? Saturday, September 20th from 3-9pm Burning Heart 08 The Day of Decision. What is it? Invite your inactive, disaffected, in-name-only Latter-day Saint friends and neighbors out to an afternoon of great music, food, bounce-houses for the kids, local radio and TV station booths, and meet and fellowship with participating Churches and their pastors (as of this point these local churches will be represented there:

At the end of the night, I’ll deliver a short message and the pastors will be there to baptize those who wish to publicly identify themselves as Christians. Burning Heart ‘O8 – The Day of Decision. Approach your pastor and invite them to join with us for this state-wide revival.

Upcoming Presentation

On Thursday, August 7th from 3:30 to 4:30 pm, Dr. James Wakefield of the Salt Lake Theological Seminary is going to present a response to LDS apostle Jeffery Holland’s October 2007 LDS conference speech on the oneness of the Godhead. If you’re interested in the Trinity then this is a must see presentation. Go to

A now for a re-traction: I’ve said on a number of occasions that author Lee Strobel was a detective. I was wrong. He is a law school grad journalist. Apologies.

There was a story in the Salt Lake Trib on the 15th of this month about an inactive LDS man named Chad Hardy who created and sold calendars of returned missionaries without shirts and called the calendars “Men on a Mission.” It seems the LDS church leadership summarily excommunicated the creator for his “salacious” publication even though it was done with the full permission of the models involved. That in-and-of itself is sort of humorous, but the real comedy came by way of a letter to the editor from an LDS man regarding the excommunication of Mr. Hardy. It read:

Had a viewer email me several emails over the past few years: Here mantra? “I don’t believe a word you are saying.” Three weeks ago I received a final email from her: (QUOTE)

Finally, before I introduce some very important people in my families lives, I want to share another email I received from one “Daniel.” It reads: “Just wondering, since you believe Mormonism isn’t true, will you tell your new name and show the whole endowment on your show?”

In light of this question, I suppose it’s time to repeat our ministry, methods, and mission. What is our purpose here and in our ministry? Is it to offend or inform? Is it to prove myself to other Christians to prove our intent to seekers? Our mission is to first reach the lost and disaffected Latter-day Saints with the saving message of Jesus. A secondary message is to reach active believing LDS with information the current administration refuses to present. Our final objective is to share the saving biblical message of Christ crucified with all people whether once LDS or not.

Mission and Objectives

In order to meet our primary and secondary objectives, it would be sheer idiocy for me to do as you’ve asked, Daniel. If I were trying to reach Jews would I burn a yamika on air? If I were trying to reach Muslims, would I rip the Koran in two? Admittedly, there is a very delicate balance between sharing truthful information and offending everyone within earshot. So just to re-confirm

Spiritual Rebirth and Religious Backgrounds

Our position for all to hear, let me say this:

I believe that there are Latter-day Saints who can come to a saving relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ WHILE Latter-day Saints. To take it a step further, I even believe people – Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Scientologists – whoever – can experience spiritual rebirth even while still holding some false notions of who Jesus is! And I don’t care if you or your online “apologetic ministry” agrees with us or not.

Born-Again Mormonism

No such thing as a born-again Mormon? I WAS ONE.

Again, our focus is not really where you attend church, it’s whether you know you are saved hook, line, and sinker by grace through faith in Jesus who is God. This being said, there is another side to the coin. While we love all peoples – Mormons included – we are wholeheartedly against Mormonism and Mormon Doctrines. We believe they lead to people standing on an inferior foundation to what God offers, and to personal bondage, and away from a person regenerative relationship with Christ. Our approach – which is clearly presented in our book I was a Born-Again Mormon – is reaching people, causing walls to fall and lives to change.

As I’ve traveled over the past three years, I became acquainted with a very nice and personable pilot who is an active, faithful Latter-day Saint. Last week as I existed a plane, he saw me and asked if we could talk. I had given him my book months before and we have had several conversations about our ministry and the LDS Church. He explained to me that he had a friend who had been LDS all her life, but that she was since he could remember, “hollow inside.” He said that as he was speaking once again and could see that after all these years she was still unassimilated into the LDS ways, he told her about our website and gave her his copy of our book. I was astounded . . . and appreciative. I told him that his actions were very mature. He explained that he is well aware that “Mormonism is not necessarily for everyone” and I applauded the love and care he has for his friend and the peace she needs in her life.

Selfish idealism from any side of the fence is from the mind and hearts of men. When Jesus is given a real chance, He shows up where people are, and saves them, heals them, and brings peace to the hearts of all who let Him in. Before we go to prayer and tonight’s message, I want to introduce you to some very good friends up from California. The Sonne Family – or at least part of them. We have been friends with the Sonne’s for coming up on fifteen years.

Chris
Kathryn
Elizabeth
Ben
Luke
and Claire

Chris and I were called to an LDS high council on the same day and served together. He is one of my best friends. Kathryn . . .

And with that, let’s have a prayer.

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

True Church Practices

Okay, continuing on with “the seventeen points of the True Church,” let me cover a few easy ones:

Divine Healing

#9, the LDS claim that the True Church must practice divine healing. We would agree. But in the context of the Word, divine healing is a gift of the spirit and not all peoples and it is not a tool of a priesthood. People are given the spiritual gift of healing – women too. But we do not have God at our service to do our will.

I would submit that ALL healings – whether someone is Christian, LDS, or otherwise are divine and the will of God, no matter how they occur. I would also suggest that all deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. and disease must have His permission to exist or take hold. There is no link between the LDS priesthood authority and healings as they would try to suggest. God loves all His creations – and heals whom he will as a result.

The LDS claims to priesthood healing people makes me think of a Beverly Hillbillies episode where Granny swears she has discovered the cure for the common cold through a critter elixir. When Jed told his doctor about it the doctor assured him that the only way to get over a cold was plenty of bedrest and plenty of fluids, but back at home Granny insisted she had the cure. A convention was held to announce Granny’s cure for the common cold and Granny got up to speak about her tonic. Testimonies were told of how it really worked. Finally, someone asked Granny why she thought the tonic

LDS Claims and Biblical Context

worked, to which she craggily replied,

“I’m not sure. All I know is when someone takes two tablespoons of the stuff, drinks plenty of water and gets lots of bedrest, they’re feeling better within a day or two!” So there it is.

The Twelfth Point the LDS church uses to claim that it is the only true church says: “The Officers of the Church must be called by God.” The site Bible passages so out of context that it is just amazing they are allowed to have ever gotten away with it – especially the Old Testament passages in Exodus 28:1 and 40:13-16. You look them up relative to the New Testament church and see for yourself. But they also quote Hebrews 5:4 to justify their position on this which reads:

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Three points relative to this passage:

First, this has no reference to the call to the work of the Christian ministry, and should not be applied to it. It should not be urged as a proof-text to show that a minister of the gospel should have a "call" directly from God, or that he should be called according to a certain order of succession. The object of Paul is not to state this, but to show that the Jewish high priest was called of God to his office in a certain way, showing that he held the appointment from God, and that therefore it was necessary that the great High Priest of the Christian profession JESUS should be called in a similar manner.

Second, this passage has absolutely no relevance to the LDS idea of priesthood authority. Were the Aaronic Priests of the Old Testament called the same way as Aaron was? Not at all (just read Leviticus 8 and Exodus chapter 29) and you will see.

Finally, this “point” of the seventeen is usually understood and explained by the LDS as a person must be called by a laying on of hands by one with the proper priesthood authority. Since Pentecost, people of all walks, shapes, genders, methods and meanings have been called and used by God without there ever being a hand laid on them.

Missionary Efforts and Their Messages

The fourteen point the LDS claim the true church must have reads: The True Church must be a missionary church. Any Bible-believing Christian would agree. Taking the message of Christ to the world is a vital part of being Christian. Christian missionaries share what? Christianity. The Bible. Jesus.

Mormon missionaries share what? Jesus. Joseph Smith. Joseph’s plan of salvation. Tithing. Codes of conduct. Families can be together forever. Church. Church. Church.

I received an email in response to our show on LDS hymns not long ago, and the writer made an interesting point. It seems there is a great Christian hymn called “What a friend we have in Jesus.” It goes like this:

Interestingly, but ever indicative of what the LDS focus on and what their missionary force demands, they have taken the same tune, and changed the title and words: It’s called, “Israel, Israel God is calling.” What does it focus and speak of? (Read it)

LDS Missionary Focus Compared to Christian Efforts

I am also curious why Mormonism has thrived for several hundred years by pulling people out of their various church relationships rather than trailblazing out into the unknown and suffering regions of the world. Christian the world over have always gone into remote villages and fed, taught, and assisted the world’s underbelly with the saving message of Jesus and food. Ever wonder why there are so many Christian missionaries who spend their lives in these third world places while the LDS have – especially between 1839 and 1950 – spent most of their efforts knocking on the doors of people with an existing church relationship, shallow as those relationships may have been? And what was (and remains) the Missionary message: “All the churches are corrupt – except ours.”

Any church can be a missionary church. But the question is, a missionary for what?

Next week, we are going to embark on a three-part series to respond to the 17th Point the LDS say must exist, and they summarize it with this phrase: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Hang on to your hats.

Let’s open up the phones:

(801) 973-8820
(801) 973-TV20

As we await on the operators to clear the calls, allow me three minutes to respond to a caller last week by a man who calls himself Harley. Now Harley pulled a standard LDS move regarding the Bible – he took a single verse, interpreted it to fit his LDS beliefs, and called to tell us what it meant. I told Harley on the air last week that while I was unsure

The Divinity and Eternality of Jesus Christ

Before we discuss the verse and its real meaning relative to other verses in the Word, I would like to make a couple points: First, did Harley’s question support the divinity and deity of Jesus or did it demean Him? To say the Christ was created does nothing but lower Him relative to the truth that He is the first, the last, the alpha, the omega, uncreated and eternal. So the first point to bring out when you are asked a question by LDS defenders of the faith is: "What is your purpose in suggesting this belief?"

The second point you may consider is there is nothing wrong with not knowing the answers. It isn’t a matter of winning or losing; if it is, then you're missing the point. But it is a matter of discovering the truth. You will often find with self-appointed defenders of the LDS faith they are not in the discussion to discover truth but are in it to win. So don’t be embarrassed to say – if they extract a single standing verse and make an entire argument by it – that you have to research it. Odds are they won’t want your researched answer, just as I’m certain Harley is not interested in a contextual understanding of this verse, but YOU will gain knowledge and strength by searching it out fearlessly.

Interpretation of Revelation 3:14

That word “fearlessly” brings me to the final point before I give the answer to Harley’s heresy: YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR IN SEARCHING THE WORD BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYS, ALWAYS PROVIDE YOU WITH A CONTEXTUAL ANSWER. Got it? Okay. Harley called and quoted Revelation 3:14 which reads:

“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”

Now I had an abundance of Bible scholars write me with information on this verse: Louis W., Russ P., Kevin, Stephan N., Annabelle and Kevin were among them. The verse says: “These things saith the Amen. the faithful and true witness:” I think everyone – including Harley agree that this is speaking of Jesus – with the Amen being applied as a personal pronoun to Him. It is a personal pronoun that means, “so be it.” The reason the Amen is applied to Jesus is because Jesus is also known as the Word – and when God speaks, it is done – so be it. But it is the next sentence that Harley used as evidence that Jesus was a created being, the line that reads that He is “the beginning of the creation of God.”

Contextual Analysis of Biblical Verses

Ho, ho, ho, he, he, he saith Harley without one whit of knowledge for the rest of the Word, “this proves Jesus was created!” First, let’s look at the Greek word for beginning here. It is “archee” which refers to an origination instrument or an origin and not a chronological reference. It means “the first cause” or an efficient cause. Another word used to describe archee here is “the source.” So the verse should be read: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the source of the creation of God. Now Greek research is good, but we must also look to the Word itself to see if there are other verses which support this idea the Greek suggests. Ut-oh, Harley, you should have been attending a Bible teaching church all these years instead of your ward dinners.

John 1 says what about Jesus being the source? Let’s read it.

John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In case you are wondering, Harley, if the Word refers to Jesus, verse 14 says: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. Not convincing enough? Let’s read from Colossians 1

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Harley, come to the Lord. Believe in the uncreated One – the Lord God of all things.

Discussion on Faith and Spiritual Rebirth

even Jesus Christ.

Alright, phone calls.

Five minutes left: Hey, as we close tonight, I want to read a wonderful piece of writing from a devote viewer of our show – Patricia.

If you want to remain LDS, that is your decision. But for the time being, have you been “born of God?”

Scriptural Insight: John 1:12-13

At the end of every show, we have posted a scriptural reference: John 1:12-13

It reads:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Upcoming Events

Conclusion: Hey, tell your family and friends, beginning August 12th At 8pm, AM 820 “The Truth” will be airing Heart of the Matter.

And take a moment and ask your pastor if your church could participate in the state-wide revival Burning Heart ’08 – The Day of Decision.

We’ll see you next week, here on HOTM.