Faith without religion.
Fulfilling the Law: Understanding the Beatitudes and the Kingdom of Heaven
Beatitudes, Fulfillment, Kingdom
In a recent discussion, Shawn and Delaney delved into the intricacies of biblical teachings, focusing on the Beatitudes from Matthew chapter five. They explored why Jesus chose to deliver these teachings privately to his disciples, suggesting that it was a form of training for them to carry the message forward. The conversation also touched on the broader implications of Jesus’ teachings, questioning how principles meant for a specific group at a specific time can still hold relevance today. Shawn emphasized the idea that scripture is “alive by the spirit,” suggesting that its teachings transcend time and context, offering valuable insights for modern readers.
The discussion also ventured into the concept of fulfillment versus destruction in Jesus’ mission. Shawn explained that Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it, completing its requirements through his life. This fulfillment marked the transition from the old Jewish economy to a new spiritual kingdom, symbolized by the New Jerusalem. The conversation highlighted the transformative nature of Jesus’ teachings, which challenged the existing Jewish understanding of law and righteousness, proposing a new way centered on faith and love.
Throughout the dialogue, the participants grappled with complex theological concepts, such as the nature of temptation versus sin and the transition from a material to a spiritual kingdom. The discussion underscored the depth and richness of biblical teachings, inviting listeners to engage with scripture in a way that reveals its profound principles and enduring relevance.
Podcast Transcript:
I don’t know why we do that I think
people know that you must be down and
that you’re not Dad
I’m just saying no it’s fun I could be
dad these days oh yeah your name could
that’s right
okay I stand corrected Dell is a
masculine name well it is Dad is a very
masculine name
all right
I have three three questions of some sub
questions in each Matthew chapter five
uh well the end of chapter four disciple
or sorry end of chapter four
um he just came from Gaining popularity
he started teaching and preaching after
picking up Simon and Andrew and the
others
um and then at the start of chapter five
he retreats to the mountain and
disciples follow him and he says the
Beatitudes
um
through some I have a few questions
about this obviously to be honest these
are really dense and I don’t think I’ll
ask much about them okay because there’s
plenty of teachings but why do you think
he said them in this context like he has
to retreat and keep them privately and
then he goes into this long thing for
the next few chapters to them privately
yeah why why like that he’s training his
called Disciples now okay and those are
just those are the only ones there it’s
not the masses there okay I will uh this
is a question later but it ends the
sermon this is the
ends it by saying the multitudes left
so it it it makes it seem like people
kept coming to listen to that maybe they
did perhaps I don’t know it doesn’t say
and more and more people joined yeah it
just starts with the disciples only and
then it ends with multitudes yeah it
seems like having not read it but it
seems like uh they had to escape so that
they could talk quietly and then people
started to join them but it starts off
with him teaching the Beatitudes too
Beatitudes are the the blessings in the
first part of chapter five why are they
called Beatitudes because it means
blessed because he says blessed are you
blessed are you right okay and
it’s just funny to me because he had
like popularity and these are like the
major things these are major principles
that he’s teaching I just didn’t know
why he didn’t
say it to everybody
he was training so it could have been a
Socratic dialogue between them we’d read
between the lines I don’t know but the
other thing was is he wouldn’t uh Isaiah
prophesied that he wouldn’t be a guy
standing on a street corner screaming
yeah he was someone he came to teach
them to take the message out and and the
reason is is because they would witness
everything he did they’d be a witness to
his miracles they’d be witness to his
teachings and then they would be a
witness to his resurrection which was
the key and so all of it was so that he
could keep them together and teach them
along the way okay
that makes sense yeah I I’m gonna ask
this question later but I want to ask
now like
like why it’s this is a really specific
example that is confusing to me with
your
your teachings of fulfillment and like
this letter was to them then the he was
talking to these people at that time
like he was literally talking to a
specific set of people here and but he’s
talking about the most referenced
principles in all of Christianity like
even things that you draw from sure
are lessons taught here why how why how
can you justify that why is that not
just for those people for those people
he’s training to get you know why how
can we apply this to us I I don’t have a
an ability to justify my view of that
because I personally believe that the
the scripture you’re reading is alive by
the spirit when you read it and that the
principles of the Beatitudes transfer
from that time two thousand years ago at
a teaching he was given to his 12 to you
today
to you today and so uh that’s how I
would see it I can’t you know a lot of
people say oh no they they’re called IO
Israel only they say obviously this was
only to them why are we reading it
that’s what they say but I I step back
from that and I say I think the word of
God is a valuable gift and the only
reason I say is because it’s affected my
life and helped me understand him better
now people can disregard that when they
really see the context and they can say
I’m IO it’s only for them and we have
friends who are that way but
um I think that is overlooking uh the
process that’s involved in scripture and
how God brings us to maturity which is
which are those things we talked about a
few shows ago
that helps
and there are probably some moments in
here where he’s talking just to them and
it’s like less applicable to us
definitely even juicing the ceremony at
all which is why I think we mentioned
this in the early shows the gospels are
really not reflective of Jesus message
to us today that they are telling us the
history about what happened and we can
gather spiritual principles from them
but they were all to Jews the gospels
are reflecting Jesus ministry to Jews
and we just can’t relate to that
completely Paul’s the one who brings us
into how it applies to gentiles
I see so the blessings the Beatitudes
how
how was that like profound for Jews at
that time would you say
um I think in some ways it reflects what
a lot of uh Psalms and Proverbs say and
maybe there was some reiteration in what
was going on there but he is teaching a
way that was actually revolutionary to a
Jew’s mind and that day the Jews were
looking for a Earthly Kingdom they had
the law they were right and they wanted
to govern by a a
Iron Fist and so Jesus teachings there
are different than that message
teachers are blessed are the meek what
do you mean Meek we’re gonna go to war
with Rome in about 70 years we’re not
make we’re gonna take over the world we
have God on our side right mourn
and and blessed are those who uh all the
things he says right yeah and for for
they shall have X Y and Z yeah are the
things that Jews want yeah so he’s just
proposing it’s the inverse of what how
they’re doing it together yeah yeah I
see because he’s teaching them a new way
and when you read those things those
things start to become really difficult
to do you know and that’s why the road
to him is more difficult than the Jews
wanted to embrace the other thing about
those Beatitudes I have to point it out
but look at look at I’m sorry but look
at verse three it says blessed are the
poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom
of heaven right that’s the first thing
he says so he starts off and he says if
you’re poor in spirit yours is the
kingdom of heaven and then the next one
is shall be shall be shall be shall be
so those are all future things and if
you go through all those things and you
accept them and you grow and you mature
and then at the end the last one he
gives is persecution and he says there’s
is again so whether you’re a babe in him
in faith or you’re a mature Christian
yours is the Kingdom of Heaven if you’re
a thief on the cross or you’re somebody
who’s gone through persecution yours is
the Kingdom of Heaven do you get to see
how that is yeah but these other things
that he says are just future promises
shall be in the face of like maturing
yeah okay he’s describing a process of
maturing in the faithfair and we do a
whole teaching on that it’s what the
fourth dimension Christian’s on it’s a
process and it begins sort of in that
order ending with being persecuted for
righteousness sake and when you’re able
to face that man you’ve really grown
because geez
so it’s a process there there’s a
formula there actually yeah it almost
yeah like I I would say that I’m
probably in this morning moment yeah
because what you’re mourning is my old
life I’ve come to know Jesus and I’m
mourning over everything I’ve thought
yes that’s a great example and not when
it like leads to yes yes which leads to
hunger and thirsting for it that’s
really interesting isn’t it it’s an
amazing teaching
that’s why they call him the master
teacher and if you take time to really
digest the word like you’re doing right
now that’s when it starts to buy the
Spirit open up and you’re like oh get it
yeah yeah
because how many people read those
they’re just like blessed
and they don’t get it
but it is a process and it always ends
with you being persecuted
and then what happens is you fail then
he does it gives a lot of information to
being persecuted and they’ll be
persecute you and they’ll say all kind
of evil against you great is your reward
in heaven so so persecute the prophets
and what happens when most of us get
persecuted for righteousness sake we get
angry we lose our faith in terms of how
we live it and we go back to mourning so
it’s an Infinity Cycle you go back to
mourning you’ve seen me do that in the
past month where I mourned over my flesh
rising up right I was persecuted and I
or I thought I was right so get it
that’s really
interesting that’s why I would only this
is how I would understand
you calling the word living because you
can continue to read it and like
it opens up these different moments
and learn from it in those different
ways forever yeah some people say that
happens to me every time I read Les
Miserables right yeah but
I don’t know yeah I don’t know what to
say
this just has
profound principles to it
okay
um
okay so then Jesus says
more things a lot of things
I like don’t know what to touch on right
what can you say oh
what is your are we done let’s start it
what
what you didn’t start the recording oh
who cares
10 minutes now okay here I’m out all
right yeah that’s correct 10 minutes
okay
keep going sorry
a lot of things right and 20 minutes
um constricts me a little bit but
I wanted to point out Jesus says I came
not to destroy but to fulfill yeah
till having an earth pass away one jaw
or one title shall in no wise pass and
no wise pass away from the law till all
things be accomplished yeah okay so
like why does he have to specify that I
feel like
like are people perceiving him as
destroying things like yeah you want to
see him as a rebel okay they see him as
a a
insurrectionist going against the
established way okay and he said I
didn’t come to destroy it I came to
fulfill it how does he fulfill he’s
fulfilling the law through his own life
of obedience okay so he fulfills the law
completely in himself does what’s
required by the law so their law is
abolished is oh yeah and and according
to him law
adultery but not having less in your
eyes yeah so he’s fulfilled it entirely
right is there any way to like know that
like you don’t really know what’s what
his heart is or what his heart is oh oh
no you you
do no no no no we don’t know what
happened we we don’t know but we know he
was tempted all things so he was
attempted with lust like he had to face
that thought yes yeah he he faced the
thought of molesting boys he because he
was tempted in all things but he did not
sin in the Temptation so there’s no sin
in the Temptation there’s a sin in the
action
right
but he he amplifies what he does is he
takes the Jewish law which they were
really comfortable in because it’s kind
of easy so to speak for some people to
say I never committed adultery right
yeah so he says oh but they flirted with
a bunch of people yeah and in your heart
you were doing it so he’s let me tell
you what it really what this really
means and he took the law and he
Amplified it which what what that did
for a Jew was it says
how can I get to heaven then
so you can’t get to Heaven by the law
because no one can keep it but even if
you kept a lot of it the scripture says
if you break one point you’re a law
breaker okay so he amplifies it so much
they say how can we do it and his
response is with god with man it’s
impossible but With God all things are
possible meaning look to me and by your
faith I will have done all those things
on your behalf and you’re Justified
before God
it’s a really fine line though that I am
realizing I get mixed up is Temptation
versus breaking it because breaking it
is like
to this very minor degree if you act on
it at all you’re breaking in or even in
your heart but the temptation of it kind
of feels like that still it does feel
like it that’s because we’re embodies of
Flesh
his temptation wasn’t that wasn’t this
sort of want for it
or he had a will and he had a human will
and he wanted certain things that the
father did not and he but what he did
was say not my will yours be done
but as a man he was tempted in all
things so he had those desires but God
in him led him to not participate in
them
so the our fleshly desires are not
what’s sinful
I would say they are uh they aren’t of
God because God doesn’t have them right
as his word of God as well they’re at
his flag right of his flesh right of the
man and so as flesh as man as human he
understands us he understands this uh
these things that we have that’s why
Paul again to appealed him says with my
flesh I serve the law of sin that’s what
he says you know but with my mind the
renew mind I serve the law of God and
that’s our only hope is that with Christ
in us in our minds we serve him our
flesh it’s always going to be screaming
to do something crazy right okay
okay
um
uh
and at this point he says
having an earth pass away oh such a good
question I don’t know what this means oh
my goodness
until Heaven and Earth pass away right
no is it what does this mean he says
till Heaven and Earth pass away what one
dot or one Tittle shall and no wise pass
away from the law till all things be
accomplished okay so the Jews have the
law jots and tittles were their little
demarcation lines that they had which
are very small in minute he says none of
it is going to heav heaven and earth
will pass away
what does he say again
okay he says I came out to destroy but
to fulfill right before I say unto you
till Heaven and Earth pass away one jar
until Sean no wise pass away from the
wall okay so the juice this is so
important the Jews saw
uh administration’s economies
whatever as Heaven and Earth
so God created the Jewish economy under
one Heaven and Earth
okay when that Jewish economy would end
then they would have a new Heaven and a
new Earth okay okay so the former
economy Heaven and Earth was under the
law
okay and Jesus says Heaven and Earth
will pass it won’t pass away until this
economy this law this whole thing isn’t
going to pass away till everything’s
fulfilled by who by him I will fulfill
every jot every title under this old
former economy remember the circles like
this under this economy I will will not
pass away until everything’s fulfilled
and when it was fulfilled it would pass
away and a new economy would come in but
until it was fulfilled it was not right
it would not pass it would not pass away
and so he was there to fulfill it
through his life
and Dot just to be clear on something
you mentioned before this economy is
Kingdom of Heaven on Earth
it was in the sense that they had a
kingdom of material Kingdom but it
wasn’t it wasn’t Kingdom of Heaven on
Earth it was God’s Kingdom on Earth the
kingdom of heaven will come in this
circle there’s no Kingdom of Heaven not
here no it’s just Kingdom on Earth it’s
God’s kingdom of the people the nation
of Israel his kingdom King David and and
all their Wars and everything that was
the Earthly Kingdom and John said hey
the Kingdom of Heaven is coming to
replace that a new economy is coming to
replace this former way so it’s
literally as if God’s kingdom is lived
out here and it’s moved to Heaven yeah
that’s it like changes locations right
right so what happened what was Heaven
to them back then
there it was just a place where God
resided third heaven or whatever they
wanted to say but humans didn’t go there
humans went to Shield the covered place
so they weren’t part of that right and
that was like common knowledge yeah
that’s how the Jews why did they live
the law if there wasn’t this this
righteousness to get to heaven at the
end of their life
well there was a righteousness that what
came by faith and living the law that
would when they died go to paradise part
of the covered place it’s called
Abraham’s bosom okay okay that was a
good place but it wasn’t with God okay
that Kingdom of Heaven would be
established much later but they were all
in Abraham’s bosom if you were righteous
under the law if you were not you went
to prison which was the gnashing of
teeth in the dark and all of that okay
so just to be clear
first Circle first Circle there’s God on
his own
there’s God on his own yeah I would say
that there’s Earth with people
who are either living by the law or not
when they die they go to covered Place
shield and there are sort of degrees of
punishment too there prison Paradise
prison Paradise that’s written in the
scripture okay then after he sang
I can do a story but to fulfill so when
he fulfills it one Heaven and Earth do
pass away right there’s a new Heaven in
Newark that’s right with a New Jerusalem
with a New Jerusalem
and it sort of it sort of inverts so the
heaven if Jerusalem is the kingdom oh
Jerusalem brick and mortar Jerusalem was
part of this first Kingdom that was
there that was the kingdom and now we
and in fulfillment you go to that
Jerusalem that you Jerusalem which is
above and that’s like heaven right and
you only get in there by faith in Christ
and there’s only that though so before
there’s the kingdom and there’s the
covered place now it’s just the kingdom
which is New Jerusalem that’s right the
covered place has been victoriously
overcome by Christ and so it emptied out
anybody who was in there upon his return
we’re out of time
the heaven when they say the Kingdom of
Heaven is at hand then it means that New
Jerusalem is coming is going to exist
soon that’s right okay yeah
and what so again two places and God
into just one place with God
one place with God in the Kingdom the
New Jerusalem but outside of it it might
be akin to the prison part that we had
before which was the covered place right
yeah that might be akin to some
segregation segregation but there isn’t
a sub there isn’t like something
I’m trying to identify there was two
separate places kingdom was here
materially material in Jerusalem and
there was a covered place
the translation doesn’t have like a
second place
if there’s a New Jerusalem there isn’t a
sort of second place no that we’re
living in here
only and we’re still on this Earth just
like there was Earth in the first
Kingdom there’s Earth on the second the
first Kingdom you died you went to the
covered place this one you die and you
go to the Heavenly realm either the New
Jerusalem or outside of it but the Earth
at the old time was a part of God’s
was a kingdom it was only the kingdom of
the Jews it didn’t pertain to anybody
outside of it it was an Earth but there
was only one Kingdom it was the nation
of Israel they were his chosen people
through whom the prophets in the Messiah
came so only Jerusalem their
headquarters and only Israel were part
of that Kingdom so there’s there’s
separation between God
material Kingdom and like reward and
Punishment in the afterlife are you
talking about now pre no pre-fulfillment
pre-fulfillment there’s separation
there’s God separate from Material law
separate from punishment and reward
for living that and then it’s all sort
of dissolved into one thing because of
Jesus yeah but it seems to be the one
thing that it dissolves into has similar
properties to what existed before just
spiritually yeah just spiritually so the
like it would be likened to if it’s a
New Jerusalem the law in the old
Jerusalem was
abolished abolish what’s the law in the
New Jersey love
faith in love so living now you call it
a Proving Ground but it’s
like is it us trying to live out what
the New Jerusalem is well we are
citizens of that New Jerusalem by Spirit
yeah okay okay but we haven’t received
the full membership until we die and
enter it okay all right so we’re
participating in it now oh yeah
spiritually that’s our kingdom our
Kingdom’s not of this Earth yeah okay
that makes sense yeah sorry great
questions right whoa whoa she must be my
daughter
look I got a head nod I almost go ahead
touch
okay we will stop great stuff that one
we were recording so we’re all good
until next time
