Faith without religion.
Walking on Water: A Lesson in Faith and Doubt
resurrection, faith, doubt
In a recent discussion, Shawn and Delaney delved into the intriguing biblical narratives surrounding John the Baptist and Jesus. The conversation began with Herod’s belief that Jesus was John the Baptist resurrected, a notion rooted in ancient beliefs about resurrection and the transmigration of souls. This belief was so profound that it led to speculation about whether John had returned as Jesus, highlighting the era’s mystical understanding of life after death.
The dialogue then shifted to the miraculous feeding of the multitude, where Jesus fed thousands with just a few loaves and fishes. Shawn and Delaney explored different interpretations of this miracle, including a humanist perspective that suggests the crowd shared their food, filling the baskets. This interpretation, however, was met with skepticism, as it seemed to undermine the miraculous nature of the event.
The conversation took a reflective turn as they discussed Jesus’ humanity, particularly his grief over John the Baptist’s death. Despite his divine knowledge and power, Jesus’ sorrow illustrated his deep human empathy, resonating with the idea of him being “a man of sorrows.”
The discussion culminated with the story of Jesus walking on water and Peter’s attempt to join him. This narrative was examined for its deeper meaning about faith and doubt. Peter’s initial faith allowed him to step onto the water, but his fear and doubt caused him to sink. This story served as a metaphor for the Christian journey, emphasizing the importance of maintaining faith amidst life’s challenges.
Throughout the conversation, Shawn and Delaney reflected on the complexities of faith, the paradox of seeking God through the material world, and the ultimate reliance on divine strength in the face of life’s adversities. Their exploration of these biblical stories offered a profound insight into the enduring themes of faith, doubt, and the human condition.
Podcast Transcript:
foreign
okay
let me pull it up 20 minutes
okay so they think this starts with hair
at the tetrarch
here’s reports of Jesus
um and he says this is John the Baptist
risen from the dead and then they
explain why John the Baptist is dead
which is a horrible story it made me
really sad actually to read I know we’ve
beheaded him because what because he
tried to give good advice to Herod and
the wife of his brother didn’t like it
and asked for him to be beheaded that is
so insane I think it’s more like I don’t
think he was trying to give good advice
I think he straight up said this is evil
it’s not lawful for you to have her yeah
and and who’s that gonna piss off most
the her yeah
she just boom yeah talked her daughter
into getting him to because he made a
dumb promise yeah but the oh the
interesting thing about that is that the
way they thought he thought that he had
come back from the dead yeah guilty
conscience
well I was gonna ask is resurrection
like a thing that they thought about
they did yeah
but they they also believed in something
called a transmigration of Souls which
is similar to Scientology oh what
Scientology teaches is that you die and
you transmigrate to another body so they
wondered if John the Baptist had come
back as Jesus
that’s freaky yeah so but that made me
wonder about Jesus being risen from the
dead must why was it so profound then if
they believed in
transmigration of souls because
nobody had ever seen somebody come back
from the dead they they had a mystery
belief about that it’s like I believe in
ghosts and you’ve never really seen one
and then you actually see a ghost yeah
so they believed in a resurrection they
didn’t know when it would happen or how
it would happen so when he’s beaten to a
pulp on the cross and he rises the third
day that was big news okay all right
like John okay yeah before they were
thinking the spirit of John was just in
this other person now so they don’t know
for sure but okay which is one of the
reasons and it’s important why Jesus was
physically resurrected so they could see
him and say this is the guy that was put
to death okay and and I get in trouble
this because people say we’re going to
be resurrected physically where our
bodies are going to come out of the
grave and all this junk Paul says and
that’s not what it is but because Jesus
this was physically Christians say we
will be physically raised too and they
don’t get he had to have his body they
had to be able to witness that it was
him if he had shown up as a ghost
and just like they’d be like oh you’re
just a ghost right he had to have the
corp Corpus that he was died in yeah
that he was died in
um okay that makes sense
um
Jesus was told about John he goes away
and the crowds followed the disciples
say they need food send them away Jesus
says let’s feed them and then they he
feeds people and he gives thanks to the
heavens and then broke the loaves I just
kind of wondered about that just the
Hebrew common for did he do that though
he would do that yeah yeah I was in
school of ministry with a Jewish convert
and when he prayed he would always have
his hands up
you know what the humanists teach about
that Miracle of the loaves what that
they didn’t have any food
and they passed the baskets around that
had a few fishing and bread in it and
people secretly put their own in
to give to everybody because they were
so kind to each other and so when it
came back the the baskets were full oh
my God that’s how humanist take that
story to deny the miracle wait why yeah
yeah
I mean it could possibly be it creates
doubt it doesn’t like
it’s kind of stupid kind of weird I
don’t know I don’t like that yeah it
doesn’t feel right does it no
um not that feeling right yeah
um he sends it but but that happens
twice that’s I think before we’ve talked
about this and you said that’s not the
actual Loaves and Fishes
I think what we were talking about is
The Sermon on the Mount versus the
sermon on the plane there’s two of those
as well so it gets confusing okay
he sends disciples onto the boat to and
gets some solitude it’s pretty
interesting that to me that Jesus Took
time alone here especially after John’s
death
it’s morning yeah and that the news of
his death surprised him yeah it did
right well I don’t know I mean I don’t
know if it surprised him I don’t think
the text says that but he was
heartbroken yeah Jesus was a trip
because he knew he would heal people
raise people from the dead he knew there
he knew I guess that there is God
uh or and that there’s a heaven and
there’s an afterlife he knew John did
was a great guy and yet his heart breaks
when they die so it shows he was really
human he had he had feelings you know it
makes me sad yeah it’s a Man of Sorrows
acquainted with grief
that’s Isaiah oh he it’s he’s called
that he’s called A Man of Sorrows yeah
yeah I that’s interesting because I
can’t help but feel sometimes like I
just see the bad in Life or something
but that’s like what this is about is
that life is hard it’s like
you wanted we were just talking about
this like have maintaining some like
youthful like innocence or something but
like he came because life is really
difficult and like he experienced it
fully and without any reason to
he didn’t do anything wrong
and he got it handed to him that’s the
point yeah I see it more and more the
older I get like
things are just so heavy yeah
um
okay so now we’re coming up to a great
story
Jesus walked out to them on the lake
hilarious to me that they go is that a
cowboy whose thing got scared of ghosts
they didn’t have like Harbor Lights they
didn’t have like lights on the boat and
then the lake Tiberius it sits down at
the I think that’s Tiberius where
they’re on and it sits down and it’s
surrounded by these Hills and so the
wind blows over and down and it makes
the thing really radical right still
yeah they know that about about this
place so he goes a treadmill
and they think these grown men think
they’re seeing a ghost it honestly would
be terrified
I love it I’m picturing my times on the
boat in the dark oh man oh my gosh that
would be so scary oh yeah and then Peter
asks Jesus I did not know this I think
it must be the translation I read but he
asked Jesus if it’s you tell me to come
out onto the water
wait that’s what it says read it to me I
don’t get that
hold on hold on hold on hold on
he says take courage it’s I don’t be
afraid Jesus says that and Peter replied
Lord if it’s you tell me to come on the
water I think I’ve never thought of it
yeah
yeah I’ve never thought of him saying
come I don’t know maybe it’s the NIV I
wonder about the NIV we call them
inspired version what’s the one you told
me to I’m going through different songs
good I just you just I just don’t
remember ever reading that so I just
wonder if it’s part of wait let’s double
check check the King James and see what
it says yeah no ESV says take heart it
is I do not be afraid and Peter answered
him Lord if it’s you command me to come
on to the water okay I don’t I don’t
remember that it’s funny you caught that
he said come I don’t know why that’s so
weird you caught it I didn’t catch it
and you brought it up like it was weird
to you because I’ve never even seen them
yeah that’s very odd that I so maybe
it’s like you’re my Lord command me and
if he commands you I believe I can do it
well it seems like that because then the
rest of it is him
like being called out for looking to the
wind and looking you know instead of him
when he was called by
but so you know that principle
well no I want to talk about it
yeah well I want to talk about it but
I’m but for that must be why he says
Lord if it’s you command me to come to
the water
I think that’s one of the this is one of
the most uh it’s even bigger than the
fish with the gold piece in his mouth
that Peter could walk out there
that is mind-blowing
yeah yeah it’s a hard one yeah it’s very
hard
it’s like insane yeah especially from
just like our
our experience at the ocean and water
like hits really hard like that’s nuts
especially on a windy
but then but if you see the one you
place your faith in that you’re
following who has changed water into
wine and done all these things with
material substances you’re probably
thinking I can do it you know you’re
here with me I don’t know
will he of anyone Peter should have had
faith that
I mean I guess we could all have that
said about us but Peter should have
faith having been in Jesus’s proximity
that you would like on the water you
would think but Peter goes through the
whole life with Jesus and denies him
yeah it’s like knowing you’re gonna be
fine jumping off a diving board but
still being scared by it or something
yeah but Jesus says so I took note that
when he got afraid
when he saw the wind he got afraid and
when he got afraid when he got afraid
was when he began to sink
and Jesus says that that is what doubt
is and having little faith
I think maybe it’s like a dark way of
seeing this story but it’s kind of
strange to me that not having not having
faith is associated with like putting
blinders on to
kind of reality the reality was there’s
wind there’s water I’m gonna sink not
and not having faith is like not
thinking about that and just looking at
Jesus yeah it’s keeping your eyes on him
and and that’s done in faith and that’s
done in believing that he will sustain
you out there on that Windswept sea and
that he will save you from your obvious
demise but it says but when Peter looked
down because he said I think the King
James says when he looked at the waves
not the wind yeah these ESV and NIV say
when he saw the wind but I the other
ones say when you look down I’ve saw
I’ve seen that he so to look down you
have to take your eyes off
and he started to sink
and then his response is what we do when
we start to sink
cry out Jesus save me yeah yeah that’s
the cycle of a Christian you know of
someone who pursues God is I’ve I’m
sinking here man I I lost the faith I uh
you know save me
it’s so I just it’s the thing that I’m I
battle like you what like I would think
that God
it’s a weird thing like
to
it’s supposed to be where you look
around at reality and that should make
you think oh there is a God
that’s the first step and then
you know that there’s a God and you stop
looking around because then it will keep
you away from God if you look around
it’ll keep you away but it just causes
you to lose the the progress you’ve made
yeah in him that’s all it is that’s a
funny thing though for it to be the
thing that instigates your like
something in reality happening for you
to be like I need God but then
to turn from that then it makes you turn
from it later when you look to it and I
think that’s a beautiful uh concept I
don’t find it paradoxical because we are
humans in flesh in a fleshly world he
has to reach us somehow you know and
that’s what I believe he’s reaching but
once he reaches you and you know or you
believe that in this world there’s
something bigger stronger who loves and
cares about you then when you look at
around at the robbers and the poverty
and the crime and everything you do look
to him in faith and say man I can’t make
it here that’s the whole thing so it is
kind of paradoxical you start off by
looking at the material evidences and
spiritual and then you more and more try
to just look at him and that’s what that
bearable that’s what that story is
telling us
it is beautiful yeah it’s it
yeah
um
oh that’s the end of my chapter 14. look
at that that was the end of chapter four
we ended early
you guys go out and have yourself a
banana shake
it’s horrible
all right she got her mind on bananas
yeah no one wants a shake about those
okay well
next episode
