Heart of the Matter: Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity

LIVE FROM THE MECCA OF MORMONISM

SALT LAKE CITY UTAH

This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 24 BOM 50 – Peeling the Onion D June 12th 2012

And I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.. We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

Campus Gatherings

Sundays – CAMPUS:

10AM for Milk (Studying Matthew)
2:30 for Meat (Studying Romans)

Show the heck up.

What’s that? Who should show the heck up? Well, all are invited, but we especially want to invite you if you feel lost, if you are poor, broken, addicted, and left out. We want you to show up if you have no friends, no family, or feel unloved. Show up if you hate church or religion or even God. Show up and be my brother or sister if you’re addicted to porn, if you’re an adulterer, a liar, a failure, a homosexual, or a sinner of any kind. Show up smelling of drink, reeking of weed, high on whatever – show the heck up. And let us feed you the Word of God, with love, and acceptance.

(Go to www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com for more information.)

Also on Sundays, AM 820 replays Heart of the Matter from 1-2 in the afternoon. AM 820 is a great source of Christian information. Check them out.

Finally, every Monday night at the Downtown Salt Lake City Denny’s we hold a Women’s Bible study. Starts at 7PM. Last night there were twenty-two women there who had a really wonderful time with each other. Join the women-folk to learn more about the “Most Correct Book on the Face of the Earth” and to find sistership on the spot.

New Book Release

We have a brand new book that is doing really well – even on the national scene – that the Lord God almighty. The name: “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face: An A to Z Doctrinal Comparative.” I personally believe it is one of the best tools for those interested in Mormonism relative to biblical Christianity. Others seem to concur.

Unsolicited comments posted on Amazon about “A to Z” include:

From Andrew: “This is the most comprehensive, exhaustive, every-ive you can think of, book on the Mormon-Christian debate that's available. No stone is left unturned or unlooked at in a hat. If you ever wondered what Mormonism teaches compared to Biblical Christianity, this is the resource to get.”

A woman named Stephanie wrote that it is a book that “needed to be written,” Lamour gave it the top “star rating” and said, “well done,” and Kevin at Mighty Buying.com wrote: “The reality is in an age where more and more people are blending the Mormon religion with Christianity this book starts to look at the grand canyon of theological difference between the two. While it doesn't cover every topic, (it provides) hundreds upon hundreds of pages of the differences and (is) a great primer to anyone interested in looking at the gulf between the religions.”

“Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity” can be purchased at ANY Family Christian book store in the nation, of course on Amazon, at UTLM.org, Oasis Books in Logan, and Lifeway books on state street in Murray.

For the Summer, Alathea Ministries is offering it in what we think is a great package deal. What is it? Five (5) great products that separately have a hundred dollar value for fifty musty clams.

What products?

• I Was a Born-Again Mormon
• If/Then
• A seventeen verse CD of God’s Word put to music called “In His Words.”
• A copy of an excellent full feature docu-drama called, “A Mormon President,” and!
• Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face…

Fifty musty clams! It helps us move product into the hands of the peeps and helps you pay a lot less for all of it. Go to www.hotm.tv for this.

Summer Sales Extravaganza

Speaking of the www.hotm.tv website, you have got to go check out what our webmaster has done with the contents of the site. Every show has my personal notes attached to them, plus the From the Word teachings, and a forum for people to attach comments (which gets pretty interesting). Go check out the new and improved www.hotm.tv

Associated Ministry Websites

Speaking of websites, on the screen are all the websites associated with this ministry:

www.bornagainmormon.com
www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com
www.hotm.tv (and…)
www.exmormonfiles.tv

Every Friday night, Bishop Earl Erskine takes the time to interview people who have not just walked from Mormonism, but have walked into a saving relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Friday Nights 8 to 8:30 tune in to the Ex Files, right here on KTWM TV 20.

Life in Utah

Since moving to Utah we are often asked how we like it. I want you to know that we love Utah – love it. And I prefer it to life in Huntington Beach – for a number of reasons. Love the grandeur and beauty. Love the seasons. Love the true Saints here who love the Lord. We even love our LDS neighbor – Jen and her family and Ken on the other side.

But what is extremely difficult to get used to is the religious piety. It’s almost like there is a living parable being played out right in front of you any day of the week. A number of weeks ago Mary and Cassidy were pulling a trailer up to the U of U for our Sunday gatherings when it came unhitched. There in the neighborhood walked a whole lot of LDS people on their way to Church. And there stood two women staring at an unhitched trailer laying in the middle of the street. Did ANY of the LDS men who passed by stop to help? (beat) Not one.

Like the levite and the priest in the story of the Good Samaritan, they passed by on the other side. Then… all of a sudden, and seemingly out of nowhere, several men who were running to the near-by school to play soccer appeared and lifted the heavy trailer back on the hitch. Enough said.

From the Word

In our text for today, which comes from John chapter 8 verse 23, Jesus is being confronted by Jewish leaders who seek to catch and accuse Him. In this setting the Lord says something significant to the Mormon Christian debate:

“Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”

Mormonism teaches (which is frankly a Hellenistic thought) that all human-beings existed prior to coming to this world in what they have labeled, “the pre-mortal existence.” This belief places all humans in the same boat with whom they call “the Savior” because it says everyone “came from above.”

But if this is so, why does Jesus differentiate between the origins of the men gathered about Him (as being from “beneath”) but with regard to Himself He says, “I am from above”?

News alert! News Alert! Mormonism is backing off some of their brainwashing tactics!

CORY, a faithful viewer writes:

I'm technically LDS and I do attend Sacrament Meeting regularly for family reasons. Anyways, the (LDS) First Presidency had bishops read a letter during sacrament meetings and I assume it was across the whole Church. To keep it short, members were asked to not take their young children to the pulpit and whisper words they should repeat. The letter requested that only those who could “speak for themselves” bear their testimonies.

You know, there is a cynical side to me that could criticize this (saying they are just buckling to external pressure as a means “to appear” mainstream in their practices) but I thank God when ANY inroad is made that gives people – especially children – the chance to break through the mind-screw of religion and to actually hear His Truth.

May this type of thing snowball and maybe one day the LDS First Presidency will issue a letter that says to burn their additional books of scripture, donate their temples to the homeless, and apologizes for a century-plus of teaching things against the True and Living God.

Jesus and His Divine Origin

Why does He add . . . ye are of this world; I am not of this world.”

How about another passage where Jesus plainly states the truth of the matter?

In John 3:31 the LORD says:

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

I think the message is perfectly clear, folks. He and He alone “is from above” and as a result, He (and He alone) is “above all.” If all of us came from “above” Jesus wouldn’t have said this. But, in a book we can trust, He did say this.

There is ONLY one human being that existed “pre-mortally” – our King.

Man was created from the dust and became a living soul when God breathed His Spirit into Him. As a result?! “Man is earthly” and “from below.” Shamefully, this vital message about our King is LOST upon the LDS, and their notions about Jesus, their elder brother, are yet again, marginalized.

The Narrative of the Book of Mormon

Last week we stepped into the Narrative of the Book of Mormon and right off the bat encountered some potential autobiographical elements from Joseph Smith’s own life found therein. I have been faced with the decision of whether to go through each chapter of the Book of Mormon and point out all the potential and/or obvious plagiarisms . . . OR . . . To remain focused on the theme at hand, in this case, the potential autobiographical elements, then go and point them all out from cover to cover, and then pick up another theme and do the same. I have decided with this latter approach.

Recall that both Joseph Smith Jun and his father, (Joseph Smith Sr.) were the biggest participants in the Smith family when it came to treasure seeking. Joseph Jun, of course, used a stone in a hat (and folks, this is proven, and admitted, even by LDS authorities) which supposedly led him to locations containing treasure while his father used a (DIV-A-NING) rod that was supposed to point the way to buried valuables.

The Compass in the Book of Mormon

In the Book of Mormon, as Lehi’s family was about to sojourn into the wilderness, Lehi comes out of his tent and lo and behold there on the ground is another kind of “pointer.”

1st Nephi 16:10 describes it as:

“a round ball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one pointed the way whither we should go in the wilderness.”

The ball is called a “compass” (in 1st Nephi 18:12) and the “Liahona” in Alma 37:38. It worked both like Joseph’s seer stone (in that writing appeared on it) and like his Father’s divining rod (in that it pointed to where they ought to go – depending on the faith of the operator). By following the directions of the ball, Lehi’s family was led to the “more fertile parts of the wilderness” (1st Nephi 16:16) just as following the directions of their magic stone and rod would lead them to parts of the earth fertile with treasure.

At one point in the narrative, when Lehi’s family was in want of food, it was the magnificent Nephi character (a type for Joseph himself) who took the ball and by and through his righteousness was led to a place where he found game. Is this similar to Joseph Smith seeing himself as the heroic member of his family who was led to a hill full of golden plates when the rest of the Smith males failed to save them from spiritual and material destitution? I don’t think so.

Listen to the arrogant statement (taken from the History of the Church) that Joseph made to his own brother William in 1835:

“I brought salvation to my father’s house, as an instrument in the hands of God when they were in a miserable situation.” (History of the Church, vol. 7, 2:343)

I was always under the impression Jesus brings salvation to homes. Hmmmm.

Isaac Hale, the Hunter

In another interesting and potential biographical parallel, Joseph Smith’s father-in-law, Isaac Hale, (who had little time for Joseph and his shenanigans and said so) was known far and wide as a mighty hunter. So much so that in his epitaph it read:

Isaac Hale, the hunter

Joseph Smith's Storytelling and Personal Parallels

Years of hearing Emma brag about her father’s hunting skill that Joseph, through this fictional narrative, was actually able to vicariously out-do his father in law through the fictional character of Nephi? It’s a stretch. But Joseph was very capable of stretching almost anything into a workable narrative. Interestingly enough, just prior to the story of Nephi’s hunting success for the family, Joseph has Nephi’s father-in-law die in the wilderness.

Their complaints are very interesting when we consider what Joseph Smith’s own brothers may have said and thought about him and his claims. I mean listen to what Joseph has the wicked brothers of Nephi say about him behind his back in the Book of Mormon:

“Nephi says the Lord has talked with him, and also that angels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking perhaps that he may lead us into some strange wilderness.” (1st Nephi 16:8)

Nephi's Accusations and Real-Life Parallels

Taking direct quotes from the Book of Mormon passage we just read, we also know that Joseph claimed that “the Lord talked with him” and that “that angels had ministered unto him.” And we really don’t have to try to hard to hear Joseph Smith’s own brothers accusing him of “lying” to them, and “working many things by his cunning arts?” and “deceiving their eyes?”

Remember, that one of the charges laid against Joseph Smith in his 1826 arrest and conviction for being a disorderly person was the charge of his using “crafty science?” Nephi accused of using “Cunning arts” in the Book of Mormon? And Joseph Smith being arrested for using “Crafty Science” in his own life?

How many years did Lehi and his family wander in the desert? Eight. How many years did the Smith family literally WANDER between the time they left Sharon Vermont (where Joseph was born) and western New York? Eight. Coincidence? Maybe.

Nephi's Shipbuilding and Smith's Ambitions

In chapter 17 of the Book of Mormon, Nephi is commanded “to build a ship” and the Lord shows him where metal ore can be found so he can make tools. When Nephi ran into trouble building his boat, his brothers, once again, began to criticize him and they say things Joseph’s own brothers could have easily said to him in the face of his claims. Listen to what Nephi’s brothers say in the face of his shipbuilding attempt:

“We knew that ye could not construct a ship, for we know that ye were lacking in judgment; wherefore thou canst not accomplish a great work. And thou art like unto our father, led away by the foolish imaginations of his heart.” 1st Nephi 17:51

Last week I mentioned that Joseph Smith was potentially the greatest religious synthesizers of all time. We also are well aware of the arrogance he possessed, of having more to boast of than Jesus Christ, and being the one to bring salvation to his father’s house. Taking this into consideration, don’t be too quick to dismiss the multi-faceted and multi-farious ways in which he was able to wrap and warp his own experiences into the themes and characters of his supposed ancient narrative.

In a simply fascinating book, The Sword of Laban: Joseph Smith and the Dissociative Mind, medical doctor WD Morain examines a number of highly traumatic experiences Joseph Smith endured as a child then ties them into how some of these very personal events may have found their way not only into the total psyche of Smith but some of the Book of Mormon. We’ll try and tap into these potential autobiographical applications next week.

Let’s open up the phone lines:

(801) 973-8820
(801) 973-tv20

First time callers please. LDS callers preferred. And turn off your television sets while you wait!

Our ability to remain on the air and doing what we do is directly related to your support. Prayerfully consider the following:

Bill F. writes in and says: Did you know in the Salt Lake City museum, they have no BOM artifacts?

Our good friend “Michael the ex pagan now Son of the living God” presents an interesting point about gay marriage, asking: Why are the LDS all crazy about gay

Marriage and Religious Beliefs

Marriage when their own books say any marriage is worthless unless it's a temple marriage.

If they were to hold true to their beliefs shouldn't they either be working to stop all marriages that are not LDS marriages? It’s a viable point, Michael. I mean, amidst their religious arrogance, they truly DO see the marriages they perform in their temples as truly having any merit so why all the stress over secular marriages – even if it is between members of the same sex? I think the answer lies in the fact that if homosexual marriage do, in fact, become legal, they may be obligated to perform them in their temples – hence the fight. Nevertheless, I personally believe that in light of the godless humanism pulsing through the veins of Mormonism, there will be a day when homosexual marriages will not only be endorsed, but performed by them. We’ll see.

Viewer Insights

A FAITHFUL VIEWER WROTE IN AND SAID . . .

Tonight on Myth Busters they had a show where they were able to fool people into believing something that was a lie. In the testing, they found that to really fool people it required a group of at least four that are in on the scam before people could be lied to and tricked into believing it. The show was titled…….. head games. Great title because in the end, it is all in the head.

FROM VIEWER DAYNA C.

Last week I was listening to the Glen Beck's show in the morning and he was addressing the controversy surrounding Mitt Romney and Mormonism. He defended the Mormon practice of polygamy by stating that the Mormons resorted to the practice polygamy because so many Mormon men had been "lynched" by southerners because Mormons were against slavery. This is one rationalization for the defense of polygamy that I had not heard of. And to note, if it is true, it does not explain why the practice of polygamy continued once the saints settled in Utah– unless it was religious doctrine commanded by God and not a social necessity. I truly feel bad for Glen Beck because someone has lied to him about Mormonism and Mormon church history. I am sure that if he knew the truth, he would be ashamed to be associated with an organization that propagates so much deceit. Apparently, Glen Beck has never read the doctrine and covenants nor did he research the Mormon church before converting. I just thought that this tidbit about Glen Beck's knowledge of church history would amuse you as it did me. (5th generation LDS and polygamy descendant).

Reflections on Church Experiences

FROM FRANCIE, who has some insight on being involved in churches at one time in her life and in her mother once being part of the World Wide Church of God:

“I love your program and even stream it on my iPod. I am no longer a believer in any religion. You do make me want to search out what being "saved" means as I was particularly offended as a young Black Jewish girl by all the rude Christians who wanted to know that if I was "saved" then why I “killed Christ.”

Anyway, my mother was devastated by the cruelty, classism, and racism of the Worldwide Church of God. My sister says they've broken up into many branches. I've told her that you think Tkach (sp) has turned it around. She studies and I do not, but we both find that laughable. The interracial marriages they've destroyed, the hearts they have broken, the monies they have wasted on politics, their far-right people-punishing policies have not been replaced with any love I've heard of.”

Christian Epistemology

• The three main areas members of the LDS Church either attack Christianity or criticize it are
• The Bible,
• The ontology or make-up of God, and
• The present-day church or Body of Christ.

Regarding the Bible, they like to suggest that it cannot be trusted, that it has changed, has been through far too many hands, and many of the plain and precious truths have been lost. Regarding the make-up of God they go after the fact that Christians embrace the fact that there is one God and

Relationship of God and Man

One God only but that we believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the One God. And with regard to the present-day Church, they love to scoff at the fact that there are “so many various denominations that believe in conflicting things – how could any or all of them be true? Let me explain, using these three areas, how God works in and through physical Man to bring about His heavenly ideas.

For reasons unknown to be and which can only be speculated upon, God does NOT impose mystical or metaphysical truth upon us to embrace. He has ALWAYS worked in and through physical means to relate to us . . . and to save us. As a result of this, we are left with physical evidences upon which to establish our faith. Let me give you an example:

Key Elements

BIBLE MEN HOLY SPIRIT JESUS 100% Man 100% GOD HIS CHURCH FAILING MEN SPIRIT FILLED

Understanding God's Approach

From this we can see how God has set it up for us to know truth! GOD WORKS IN AND THROUGH MATERIAL MAN TO BRING ABOUT (AND SUPPORT) IMMATERIAL TRUTHS.

He does NOT produce metaphysical truths OUTSIDE the use of material presentations! Men make “perfect systems” proven by their amazing existences (Direct books like the BOM) (Revelations based on no physical evidences) God works in and through human beings to produce his truths amidst a trail of physical supports!