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Salt Lake City, Utah This is HOTM Where we are learning to walk in the age of Christian fulfillment. And I am your host Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion..

We have warned you, explained to you, pleaded with you through the scripture. But it hasn’t mattered. Tonight, we have a living example that supports all we have said. Let’s get to it.

Show 21s Leave Ravi Alone
Taped February 28th 2021
Aired March 1st 2021

The Public Responses to Ravi Zacharias

I want what we do here to make a difference. We are not trying to shock or get likes or subscription – we want our content to help people to see the failures of our past and present ways as a group of believers and to change things. Tonight’s program is aimed at six men specifically – men who have done, and do, a lot for the faith as they share, teach and defend Jesus. I don’t want to mistreat them, but in love am going to show why their standard fare of Christianity is a fail and I am going to use their public responses to the fall of Ravi Zacharias to prove my points.

The six men are Reverend Greg Johnson, Dr. James White, Pastor Mike Winger, Todd Friel, Radio host, John MacArthur and Ray Comfort – all of whom have publicly come out with public renunciations of Ravi Zacharias post mortem and his behaviors. Most people, by this time, have heard how towering Christian intellectual and apologist, Ravi Zacharias, founder of the world famous RZIM – was discovered to have had some secret sexual peccadillos that he financed with ministry money. His indiscretions, even perhaps his crimes, have been evidenced by the testimony of a number of women – one at least who claims rape, several who claim pressure for sex, and one who particularly says that Ravi used his status as a Christian leader to cause her to enter into an adulterous affair with him.

Ravi Zacharias' Controversial Life

We also know that he had part owner ship an a couple of massage spas, one named Touch of Eden and one named Touch of Hope. (FACE) Then there is the oft repeated line that some “200 photographs of women were on his phone.” (which I wish we would just stop saying because what does the amount really mean – the man obviously had some problems with lust outside his marriage).

The first thing I want to ask is, is why are people like the six acting like this is a surprise? In 1984 Ravi formed Ravi Zacharias international Ministrys or RZIM after getting a masters of Divinity. He is best known for using logic and reason in the faith. He promoted skepticism and rational thought in pursuit of truth – which I appreciated – and I personally saw him as a gifted Christian man. Still do.

But Ravi was not a stranger to controversy. He once claimed that he been a Professor at Oxford – not true. He claimed to have received His doctorate on numerous occasions, even introducing himself as Dr. Ravi Zacharias on numerous videos. In reality, he had no PHD but he claimed to have been conferred with ten of them – there’s that numbers game again Christians love – 10 honorary PHD’s to promote a hero, 200 illicit photographs of women to expose a fallen saint.

Calling oneself a doctor because of honorary degrees is like claiming oneself to have returned from the dead a thousand times because you woke-up from a deep sleep. It was not straightforward, folks. But apparently Ravi had a reason to claim this advanced learning – perhaps it would bring more glory from men, more honor, more attention? For a while in his bio Ravi even claim six doctoral degrees but did not include the word “honorary.” He also offered theological degrees at his school, but the school was not accredited, so again, misleading. Again, why? And why did the community of those who supported him endure all of this?

In any case, that was all years ago. And few cared. Because few care, so long as the pretense works. So that’s one reason why none of his critics should be surprised – but the second reason nobody should EVER be surprised by what men or women will do is because . . .

Conclusion

All men and women have issues. Ravi’s were initially related to his educational credibility and ended up with regard to women. Others have issues with money, boys, girls, and everything in between. Why? Because that is what HUMAN BEINGS ARE made of. Even

Human Fallibility in Religious Leadership

If a man does not have an issue of lust in their hearts, they certainly have other problems, right? Why? Because human beings are fallible, sinful and fallen. When are we going to accept this and admit that this fact goes, and has gone, all the way up to the highest echelons of religion and ALWAYS WILL? And when are we going to put an end to elevating any human being to places of respect and supposed holiness, worthiness, or esteem?

To me, and I could be wrong about this, but when I looked at Ravi Zacharias I saw a man with deep acne scars on his face, who wasn’t necessarily super handsome, and who probably grew up very shy and withdrawn (due to his appearance) and was therefore very much into his studies, and he could have wound up super frustrated with the way he related with females. He even attempted suicide at 17 due to overwhelming despair. So it's easy to see that when his notoriety and money (which are what those around him ought to have encouraged him to shun) helped facilitate intimate opportunities with women (that were never open to him otherwise) and he got wrapped up with womanizing.

The Culture of Hero Worship in Christianity

But instead of seeing this as THE REALITY, his present-day critics regaled his notoriety and success, didn’t they? They held him up as if he was something great – and most of the six critics admit to this. So, the initial problem is that Christianity promotes human heroes, and relishes in their earthly influences and reputations when the first response to anyone, no matter how smart or how successful they are, should always be that they are sinful men capable (at any time) of all manner of sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace..

What’s interesting is that the Christian critics out there, and tonight I am focusing on the six, all admit to being influenced by Ravi, some even contributing to his puffed-up reputation, and all of which too have embraced their own popularity with open arms and now stand upon their lofty perches of apparent holiness, condemning him with “grave disappointment,” and “concern” and using him post-mortem as yet another “cautionary tale from which ‘everyone needs to learn.’”

The Illusion of Accountability

And what is the lesson THEY suggest? That he, and we, need MORE accountability in the body to prevent these things from ever happening! Do these critics honestly believe that an accountability group can actually keep a driven man out of the arms of other women, men, boys, or photographs? If they do, then what they are actually admitting to is that they think the outward appearance of holiness of leaders in the faith is far more important than what goes on in their hearts.

Isn’t that interesting? Forget about what God looks at. Let’s just get everyone accountable to everyone else so that nobody actually does what their hearts yearn to do! It’s religious insanity because all people will find a way to do what they want to do irrespective of accountability measures placed upon them, and so this is what needs to be emphasized to the world – men, religious or not, cannot be trusted. None of them. Ever.

Therefore, the goal is to change the whole system from the ground floor and it begins with a change in attitude and approach! Instead, we continue to do the same thing – glory in men and their accomplishments, herald them as God-authored because they accomplish something in this material world, then chop them down at the knees for doing what people do when their lives are centered on material success, number of likes, countries spoken in, and churches planted.

This is nothing new. It will happen again and it will never stop because the whole thing is rotten from the start.

How many Catholic Cardinals, Mormon Bishops, or Protestant pastors have taken such paths over the years?

How many Priests have laid with nuns in the name of God? How many pastors that we don’t even know about use God to their sexual advantage in the world, preying upon others.

How many times are we going to be surprised by when our Jimmy Swaggarts are outed, or our Doug Phillips, friend of the Duggars, Kirk Cameron, and Tea Party conservative, is caught for banging a 15-year-old girl. How about Cornerstone Church pastor Greg Reynolds, “huge child porn guy” or Bill Gothard, famous for his homeschooling ministry and his outspoken views on the extreme submission of

Examining Leadership Failures in the Church

women, ordering them to dress modestly, but had more than 30 women come forward and accuse him of molestation, rape and assault, including of underage girls. Look at Joseph Smith. Look at David Koresh. Look at Jim Jones. Look at good old Jim Bakker, rapist and larcenist, and brother Ted Haggard, who ranted against the evils of premarital sex, adultery, and gay marriage until he was caught in the bed of another man. And these are only the ones who have been caught!

This is Jesus Church? The one the gates of hell are not supposed to prevail against?

How many other pastors out there are gaming their finances, ogling women, girls, boys or are doing other things that are considered forbidden in society let alone the faith? The reality? I would say all of them, including me, and all of the six condemners of Ravi because that is what Man is, that is what Men do, and that is what human flesh will always be about – self – whether pastor, apologist, pope, prophet or small town church guy. The solution is not MORE accountability. The solution is the deconstruction of organized religions that hold men up in places of esteem in the first place!

Misplaced Trust in Religious Leaders

This is what Christian leaders, including Greg, and James, and John, and Mike, and Todd, and Ray ought to be including in every one of their messages – I am a sinner, I have no authority, do not trust me, trust in the Lord and let him and him alone guide you. So in the end you all, you men, who continue to promote and praise other men, it’s your fault for getting people – women and children and teens to trust religious leaders in the first place.

Every one of you six critics out there praised Ravi and his acumen (as if that is the sign that he was moral and upright) and then every one of you act all astonished when he too falls. And this brings me to the alternative that God instilled in this age. See, He knew this would be the case, and that is why His church body is not made of shakable men and their shakable kingdoms and empires but is subjective, of the Spirit, and not empires of flesh.

A Call for Change in Church Leadership

That is why the Bride was directly under apostolic leadership. That is why the gates of hell did not prevail against her – she was small and manageable. But you guys think that that model remains! Why? It must serve you for it to remain. It must give you a place of supposed authority for it to remain. It must allow you, without any right or worthiness, to stand up publicly and speak as if there is an institution that you are protecting, and that you represent it, and that people should trust YOU.

Do you realize that is the very same attitude you allowed Ravi to have? That the LDS let the Prophet and leaders have? That the Catholic had and have had, that every single church congregation allows their pastors to have? Has it EVER occurred to you that God has historically proven that the biggest, most wealthy, fastest growing religious groups have always, in the end, proven to be the most corrupt?

The system you have embraced has been a fail from the get go and the sad thing is you are blind to the fact that the Bible, even God himself, describes His body of believers in very very different terms.

It’s not about numbers. Or popularity. Or likes or subscribers. Its not about number of church buildings, revivals held, people “saved.” Those things are shakable and in the end are as reliable as a meth addict juggling plates on ice wearing roller skates. But will you change your approach that has proven to be a constant fail? No, you won’t. You’ll continue to take the Bible and assign its contents to the apostolic church to yourselves, playing church, and getting seekers of God to trust in the status of men.

And women, and families, and children and the unsuspecting will continue to get molested, robbed, raped, and abused in the name of God and His Christ.

(beat)

The body now, and in the future, would do so well if these six men (along with all others) opened up about their sinful natures so as to protect the world from the potentiality of their ways and will, which under certain circumstances, will

Trust in Religious Figures

raise their ugly head. I mean, are believers really supposed to believe that Greg Johnson and Mike Winger, and James White, or John the attacker MacArthur or Todd Friel or Ray Comfort are without sin, that they can be trusted and that they won’t too crash and burn? We cannot believe or trust in any man or woman. Ever.

I personally know three of the six men I have named and have actually met with and conversed with two others. The only one I don’t know personally nor have ever met is John MacArthur, who is the harshest, and richest critic of others of them all. But I know the Reverend Greg Johnson from ministry here in Utah. And I do know Pastor Mike Winger as we were in a school of Ministry Together for two years – he actually played the guitar and sang at my backyard baptism. Of course, Dr. James White, who has been a long time critic of mine, was actually on this show. And then I was also part of a fundraiser with Todd Friel years ago and have met Ray Comfort on the Huntington Beach pier.

Questioning Judgment

You know what I see in every one of them, besides the desire to share the Gospel and do good for Jesus? They are all men who think that they have the right to judge, condemn or cast the first stone at other. None of them are without flaws – and who knows what secrets they keep – but rest assured all of them have sin, and therefore none of them have the right to say a freaking word.

And so at this point I want to ask some questions to illustrate the fallible nature of the present set up we have in the faith. I will use a few examples I have taken from some of the six to illustrate my points. The first thing I want to know is in your professional opinions, was Ravi saved to the Kingdom of GodGod’s spiritual reign—fulfilled and present, not political or future.? I think that each of these men need to answer that – because I’m sure all of them would have said yes prior to the news of his problems surfacing. If the answer remains yes, then what’s your deal with him? If your answer is no, then what did Ravi do to unsave himself – since salvation comes by grace through faith?

The second question I would like the six to answer is why do you focus on Ravi’s sexual sin but not on your own? Is sexual sin more egregious to God than an mean, merciless heart? I mean, what’s worse in the eyes of God, a man with 200 pictures of women on his phone when he dies or a man who has sin in his life like arrogance, pride, mercilessness and condemnation for others?

1st Timothy 5:20 where Paul says to him, “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

Misapplication of Scripture

My brother Mike Winger says in a video that he is attaching Ravi because it’s in the Bible. And he uses a letter sent to Timothy (alone), in that day and age, to justify his calling Ravi out today. What passage? 1st Timothy 5:20 where Paul says to him, “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.” Really? So churches ought to take time to police themselves and to call people out (in sin, of any kind) as a means to make others afraid of being called out to? Is it possible that you have misappropriated the Word of God without authority and use it uncontextually in this day and age? I mean, do you have proof this passage has application to our day and age and to believers now? You don’t. You only have your assumption that this specific letter, though addressed only to Timothy, applies to you. But I would bet you don’t practice this practice fully at your church, do you? If you do, I feel very bad for the people who put up with it.

In addition to the Bible telling Mike to act this way he also says that he is standing up for the victims, especially Lori Ann Thompson, whose video he shows on his broadcast, where she shares a “victim impact statement.” I want you to listen closely to what she says because most of it proves that the solution is to deconstruct the façade of modern Christianity and to remove all the vestiges of it that place power in the hands of Man.

Reflections from Lori Anne Thompson

Here are some quotes from Lori Anne: “That abuse was her birthright.” (and she lays out all the abuses she

The Impact of Abuse and Trust in Spiritual Leadership

“That for twenty five years she was preyed on by men in positions of power.” That she had been “predator possessed” many times, in jobs, church, and other places in her past.” She says that “she hungered (and hungers) from those who possessed her in the past, and still hungers for people, to be trustworthy and true – but they haven’t been.”

That she met Ravi in 2014 at a Christian business event where her husband sponsored a table. That it is her belief that Ravi targeted her the moment he saw her. That his assistant got her email and they exchanged emails, seemingly innocent ones “for quite some time.”

Spiritual Wounds and Trust

She then states that “many people who have been sexually abused have profound spiritual wounds and questions about God – herself included. Which suggests why she was open to Ravi’s friendship. She says she saw Ravi “as one of the safest, most well-respected, and honorable persons with whom to confide and seek as counsel.” That his position as a “global representative of the Gospel was one of extraordinary and unquestioned trust and I simply had no reason to suspect that he had any nefarious intentions.”

Okay – stop? How many issues from the operations of modern church are at hand here? It’s a problem of Man, not men. She goes on to say that when they met she was married, a mother of five, and getting a degree in a field for which she had great hopes and that six years had passed since they had met.

She adds at this point, “I wish I had never met Ravi in person.” She says that in hindsight attending “that luncheon was one of the worst days she has ever had and as we can imagine she has had a few.” She then “mentions years of online sexual abuse,” (which she says she would not go into again since she already detailed it and how rehashing it made her nauseous) and how she went to a Christian counselor who told her not to tell anyone including her husband because such news would really harm the Kingdom of God, and that she then became suicidal.

That her “ideations of suicide engulfed her. She adds that even after the online sexual abuse stopped she stayed in touch with Ravi.” And then at the emotional peak of her sixteen-minute video, which Mike uses to support why he is going after Ravi, she states (referring to Ravi):

The Consequences of Shattered Trust

I trusted him. I trusted Christiandom. And that trust is irreparably, and catastrophically shattered. And then how Ravi was a faith-crushing presence in her life. All of this is representative of why brick and mortar ought never be, that men of power ought never be, and that people like this woman could have been so much better protected if Christians like Mike teach that Man cannot ever be trusted – no matter who they know.

But I have a question for Mike at this point, who uses the Bible to make his every stance, Lori Anne was a Christian right? I mean, well before ever meeting Ravi, right? And as such does the passage, Mike, in 1st Corinthians 10:13 have application to her, where Paul says:

1st Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I mean, you laid no one bit of blame on Lori Ann, Mike, not one bit, and joined her in depicting Ravi as the predator, which I'm sure he was, but let’s be fair, a woman like Lori Ann with all of her experience of abuse at the hands of men in authority, along with the fact that God would not allow her to be tempted beyond what she is able to bear, has some responsibility in her affairs too, right?

Perhaps you might say that even as a Christian Lori Anne was incapable of resisting because of her history. But maybe this same view could also be extended to Ravi? That due to his history he couldn’t “help himself?” The bottom line is none of this schtuff makes sense – except to change the ground rules of the faith.

Let's look at two more of Ravi’s accusers from the six – Greg Johnson and James White and how they praise men, but also attack when it serves their ministerial purposes. Let’s first look to…

Reflection on Leadership and Accountability

Greg Johnson of Standing Together Ministries. Greg jumped on Ravi’s coat-tails years ago and used him to pump up his own agenda, having him speak at BYU and then at the Mormon Tabernacle along the way. I don’t know this but I am betting that the financial security of Greg’s ministry was largely due to Ravi and his contributions – at least in the early years. Take a look at the video Greg put out when Ravi passed (notice the constant nod to the relationship they had together and the man worship in the video):

(SHOW 1st VIDEO OF GREG)

Then three or four months later, when the news broke on Ravi’s escapades, Greg issues this video: (notice the reflective stance upon the mountains and the language of loss expressed)

(SHOW 2nd VIDEO Of GREG)

Why doesn’t Greg also do a video of himself relative to his wife over the years, his children, and his treatment of people he doesn’t like behind the scenes?

Then we come to James White. This guy berates Ravi and his RZIM folks for their lack of accountability practices (especially, of course, in comparison to the accountability with which he abides) all the while admitting that apologist is not a biblical office. So, in reality, White is criticizing a brother in the faith who was popular but he uses what he believes are biblical standards of accountability when there were no standards possible since what Ravi did was not biblically supported!

Crazy making.

Inconsistencies Among Leaders

But the worst part of this post-mortem attack on Ravi is that with the same hypocritical mouth, James does a show honoring, laughing about, and praising Rush Limbaugh, a Christian as well, and a Christian who also operates a non-biblical position of social commentator. But James doesn’t mention the fact that his buddy Rushbo who had four wives, three divorces, drug additions, and who gloated when he returned from the Dominican Republic with illegal Viagra that he had a great time that he was not allowed to talk about. Here’s the video of James White waxing reminiscent of his love for Limbaugh.

SHOW VIDEO OF WHITE AND HIS HOMAGE TO RUSH LIMBAUGH.

So, White takes a brother that has done uncountable good in the realm of Christian thinking and blasts the hell out of him for his failures publicly but takes another brother Rush Limbaugh and gives him a good old boy (post mortem) pass on his laundry list of indiscretions. What a dirty, hypocritical game these men play – with the worst part being that all of them, every one of them, have PRESENT TENSE – sin in their own lives.

Call for Authenticity and Humility

We are beyond the point of continuing this game that has NEVER ever worked in the history of Brick and Mortar religious Empires and the men who run them. It is time for believers all around the world to demand the deconstruction of the façade, to refuse to cater to such unbiblical man-made church playing, and to give zero respect to men or women who allow themselves to have any place of supposed authority therein. It is time for all men and women with voices to humbly, contritely admit their sinful natures and to refuse to cast a stone at anyone else.

It’s time for believers to refuse to hold flesh and blood up as good, in ANY form as worthy or authoritative, and to instead show their humble allegiance to the LORD God Almighty by divesting themselves of the wealth they have accumulated, tearing down their empires and giving the proceeds to the poor, and refusing to be seen as anything but sinners saved by grace.

In conclusion I want to set the example, as a man of flesh and blood who loves the Lord with all my Heart, who is also in his word constantly, in conversation constantly about him, and is striving to walk by the spirit and not by the flesh.

That being said, when I see a massage parlor I think about going inside. Never have, but I wonder about it. I am a man who when I come across a scantily clad women online I might stop and blow up her picture, and will sometimes click the pic, which leads to porn, which I both love in my flesh and hate in my spirit. I am driven relentlessly to emotional and sexual intimacy with many women at one time, and if the Spirit of God was not with me would act on this even today. If your wife is attractive I might try and steal her from you and if you got…

Understanding Authenticity and Self-Reflection

In my way I might try to take you out.

I like to drink tequila once every week or two – on Saturdays – eight full ounces – and it puts me right to sleep. I love it, consider it a gift from God and will only stop if it takes my freedoms. And I have over the course of my Christian walk I openly admit to engaging with other women intimately other than my wife. All that being said, there is no reason to ever look to me as someone to trust – ever which is why I repeatedly tell people to test all things and never follow me. This does not mean I do not have right insights, or spiritual understanding or the ability to teach. It means I am a sinful man saved by grace and you should be fully aware of what I am capable of as a human being.

Personal Weakness and Repentance

I am at times overcome with guilt whenever I indulge in my flesh, whenever I lose my temper, whenever I lust, and whenever I condemn others, and I immediately repent for every action that I take against the Lord God Almighty or others. He is my accountability. I trust in Him, and His Spirit, to keep me honest and not bent on money, greed, lust or power. And He has done this. And while He has also strengthened me in the spirit toward women, I have at times rejected that support and I probably will again. Deal with it. I am a sinner, the worst of the worst, saved by grace, through faith on the best of the best – just like you.

Transparency in Leadership

I have zero grounds to boast. And I think its time that all people of the cloth to, admit this reality to the world and let’s change the expectation, and the ground rules as a means to REALLY protect the flock in the future. Don’t like what I’ve said? I don’t freaking care. Its authentic, and despite my failures, which prove me a sinner, I trust in my Lord, as a teacher of His word, to sustain me – not men, not your churches, and not your accountability schemes, Him. He has, and He will, because His grace is sufficient, in spite of my weaknesses. I now invite all pastors, preachers, reverends, popes, priests, chaplains of every creed, walk, way, gender and degree to join with me in total transparency as a means to fix what have not worked in almost 2000 years and to really protect the people we teach.

(BEAT)

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