John 12:33 – Part I

Introduction

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GUEST SPEAKER?

PRAY
Sing Word of God
Silence
Come back, John 12: 32-33

We left off last week with Jesus responding to some visiting Greeks who wanted to see Him and telling them that in order to serve Him that would have to follow Him – which I suggested meant in life and to the cross. After expressing this He admitted that He was anxious (troubled) over what was coming His way – a trial, torture, the stations of the cross and the cross itself.

We ended with Jesus saying in verse 31 of chapter 12:
“Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” We discussed what this meant.

Key Verses and Reflections

Then the Lord says:
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (TO WHICH JOHN ADDS)
33 This he said, signifying what deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. he should die.

These words of the Lord’s – “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me” serve as the basis for a tremendous amount of discussion if we think about it. We might first wonder why the Lord said what He said in the way He said it? And then we might wonder why the Lord describes Himself being lifted up from the earth.

Then we might wonder if the Lord will “draw all men unto Him” or if this means something different. And if it doesn’t mean “He will draw all men to Him” we are presented with a whole bunch of other questions, like: Did the Lord suffer for all the sins of all the world or just those who would believe? If the whole world, why, especially if most of the world would reject His offering? And if He paid for the sins of the whole world does sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. continue to exist?

Theological Implications

This pushes us further into thought about the Lord and Savior’s sacrifice because if He paid for all the sins of the world, and if He draws all to Him but most refuse His offering, was His suffering in vain?

Then we have to ask if God even wants all men to be drawn to Him and if He doesn’t why, and if He does, does He lose out to Satan and Men in His desires? From there we would have to wonder about the Sovereignty of God, which is another way we say that God always gets His way?

And this takes us even deeper because we then have to question the idea of freewill – does it even exist and if so, how?

Needless to say, verse 32 of John chapter 12 is rife with import in how we view God, His sovereignty, His plan of salvation, the sacrifice of His Son, notions of freewill, and the omniscience of God to kick start all this in the first place. It’s going to take us three to four weeks to just scratch the surface of what verse 32 presents us.

Conclusion

Now, I have views on this subject that are not unique to me in the body of believers but they are rarely spoken of publicly by pastors for fear of retribution from their congregates. I will present as I believe I am led but you, as with ALL things, have every right to challenge them, question them, reject or accept them. You are free to walk from these gatherings because of them – you would not be the first. But I would challenge you to test all things by the Word, search your heart, and trust the Lord as we progress over the next few weeks.

Let’s begin by breaking the words of this verse down to the Greek.

will draw
all men unto me .

And I, if I be lifted from the earth
(kagô an hupsôthô ek tês gês).

There are two major points in this first line where, depending on the version of the Bible you read, may be led, one way or the other. The first is we have to ask:

“Why does Jesus say, “And I, IF I be lifted from the earth?” As though it may not happen.

If we look to the King James or the literal Greek translations we see them supported by the “If I” translation. If we look to the revised editions of scripture (the NIV etc) you may find that it reads, “And when I.” Because I challenge the Westcott and Hort translation of scripture (which comprise the revised) I am of

The Meaning of "And I, if I be lifted from the earth"

The opinion that Jesus said, “And I, if I be lifted from the earth,” can only suggest that in His troubled mind, He may have wondered if there was “any other way,” a question He asked God when in the garden. You have to decide how you’ll see it.

When Jesus says: “And I, if I be lifted from the earth,” there are two ways of interpreting His meaning. Most Christians believe that He is speaking of being lifted up on the cross above or “from the earth.” This makes sense when we consider an Old Testament type that pictured His crucifixion – Moses and the brass serpent. It’s found in Numbers 21 beginning at verse 5. The Children of Israel, out in the wilderness, we’re getting really ungrateful. This is what we read:

5 “And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.”

Interpretations of the Phrase

Likewise, we see in Jesus, lifted up upon the cross for all to see, and those who look upon Him shall also live – both in this life more abundantly and in the next, escaping the second death – all because all they did was look upon Him, which requires an act of faith. The trouble with this interpretation comes from the Greek. There are two main Greek words in scripture for the English word “from” as in “And I, if I be lifted from the earth”: “Apo” and “Ek”.

To me the differences are hard to make clear but to scholars, Apo would be best used in the case of Christ being lifted up on a cross above the earth, and Ek would better describe His ascension FROM the earth entirely. Here in John 12:32, the Greek is NOT Apo – it’s Ek, causing some Greek scholars to believe Jesus was speaking of His ascending into the heavens once He has been crucified and resurrected from the dead and NOT being lifted up on the cross. This definition would give us a better explanation of why the Lord speaks here as if He is uncertain that He would be lifted from the earth at all. Again, it is up to you to decide which view is best. On the one hand, (and literally speaking) while His being lifted up on the cross is the reason all may be drawn to Him, it (in and of itself) did not draw all to Him – His ultimate victory over the cross and death (culminating in His ascension) did. But looking at the context of His troubled heart, the Old Testament picture of Moses, and the figurative manner which Jesus (and the Jews often spoke) it is easy to see that He was referring to being lifted up on the cross. Got all that?

Then we come to the second line of verse 32, where Jesus says:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Understanding "Will Draw All unto Me"

In the Greek, “will draw all men unto me” is (pantas helkusô pros emauton). It’s the Future active of helkuô, and means to draw and even drag or simply attract. “Men” is not in most manuscripts, so we are left with “Will draw all unto me.”

In John 6:44, where Jesus says: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” The same verb (translated draw) is used. Now there is great debate on whether Jesus means that “He will draw all” (as in all people who have ever lived) to Him or if He means “all, once He is lifted up,” all may then be drawn to Him and not just the Jews.

Now there are some passages we will consider right off the bat regarding this question.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even

The Gift of Salvation

So by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Biblical Passages on Salvation

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1st Timothy 2:4, speaking of God, says:

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

Titus 2:11 says:

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Of course John 3:16 says:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world (through him) might be saved.

2nd Peter 3:9 is interesting as it says:

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

In 1st Timothy 4:10 Paul says something really interesting. He says:

“For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe.”

Questions and Reflections

It is the presence of these passages (and many more) that cause some to say, “God wants to draw all to Him but all would not come.” (Forcing the hearer to question God’s sovereignty and power).

Then this has caused others to say: “God does not want to draw all to Him but only some,” (which causes us to wonder about His love and reason for creating most human beings who die without Christ).

And then it causes others to wonder: “Does His “drawing to all” have anything to do with how all react?” (causing those who say God is sovereign to wonder how our free will can trump His!)

All of this then leads to questions like: “So, if God is love, and God knows everything from before He even created us, and God is truly sovereign, and God desires that all would be saved – especially those who believe, what are we to think about being Christian, about heaven, and hell, and the purpose of life, and on and on and on.

Even though this is the Milk I’ve decided to spend the next few weeks opening this topic up. It is meaty and hotly disputed. Test all things, and hold fast to what is good. Do not accept what I say but consider the information presented and decide for yourselves where you stand.

Understanding Salvation and Free Will

I want to begin by clearly presenting what we are pursuing – I want to understand what Jesus means here in John 12:32 when He says:

32 “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

And so we will begin with this:

Based on the Bible, the world (meaning every individual) can be divided cleanly into two camps – those who are saved and those who are not. Those who are saved from what scripture calls the “second death,” and those who are not.

I’m not going to speak about all the nuances of salvation, the growth and personal sanctification of individual believers, or any of these variables.

In Joh 8:51 Jesus plainly says:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

We know this is NOT speaking of physical death because all of us – believer or not – die physically.

So Jesus was talking about the second death – which occurs after this life and happens in a very specific location to be discussed later.

So . . . for simplities sake, it appears that every individual who has ever walked this earth or will walk this earth, when they die physically, will either go to heaven and enter into life eternal, or they go to hell . . . and wait in torments over the failure to receive God’s grace.

Did God know, before He ever created anything, who would die and go to heaven and who would die and go to hell? Of course.

Why did He create us then – knowing full well, before one cell ever duplicated – that most would reject His solution and enter hell instead of heaven? And how do we reconcile His foreknowledge of these things with the fact that scripture calls Him love? And how do we reconcile this with passages that say Jesus will draw all to Him? And how do we reconcile

The Concept of Salvation and Election

First of all, so we can get this cleared off the table, let’s take our two major groups – those who go to heaven at physical death, and discuss them. Again, from scripture, it appears that God, amidst everything that could come in the mix, desires a people who seek, and love, and want to know Him – (and contrary to Calvinists views) He wants them to choose Him of their own freewill and choice.

Did He know who those would be before creating them? Of course. Did He create them to choose Him? All things considered like freedom, justice, goodness, and love that that would be a no. But He knew who would desire Him – from the start. And who wouldn’t. Of those who truly desire Him, truly seek Him and His will from the heart (failing or not), He gathers into heaven, and they are saved from the second death.

The Elect and Their Blessings

Scripture refers to them by name in a number of different ways: It calls them (individually) “The elect,” “the chosen ones,” “the adopted,” “God’s people,” “Son’s of God” (which includes daughters) “Light” and “Son’s of Light,” “Heirs of God,” “Children” and “Children of God,” “Joint-heirs with Christ,” “Israel,” “The Righteous,” (which comes by faith just so you don’t get confused) “The ransomed of the Lord,” “the Salt,” “God’s sheep,” “Trees of Righteousness,” “Vessels of Honor” “Vessels of Mercy” . . . and I’m sure there are many, many more.

We are NOT talking about said Christians, people who attend church but those who are truly His. They die and go to heaven and escape both hell and the second death which follows. They are saved. And not only do such escape afterlife woe and loss, the very titles that scripture assigns to them reveal so much about the benefits and blessings of being His. There is inner peace in this life, having the presence of Him with us here. There is the hope and expectation of many biblically based promises awaiting.

The Importance of Seeking God

There is the fact that we are God’s children, sons and daughters, the seed of Abraham, children of Light (who will be equipped to dwell in the light), and therefore joint heirs with Christ. The price? Death . . . to self out of love for God and Man made possible by our faith in Christ. I would be selling you all short if I did not include the biblical teaching “that strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few be there that find it.” Those who do, by genuine humility, and faith, and love, are His children.

John plainly tells us this: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood (meaning nationality or race), nor of the will of the flesh (not through moral perfection and the will), nor of the will of man (not by religion or philosophy), but of God.” Listen very carefully – especially in light of all I am about to teach – I would strongly suggest that anyone who physically dies without being a Son or Daughter will never be a Son or Daughter.

Can someone die and go to directly to heaven (as a Son or daughter) without knowing the name Jesus or the facts about the Good news? That is up to God. But what WE CAN say is that whomever dies and goes to heaven goes because of Christ and His finished work and is considered one – “of The elect,” “of the chosen ones,” “of the adopted,” “as God’s people,” “as Son’s and Daughters of God “as Light” and “children of Light,” “as Heirs of God,” “as Children” and “Children of God,” “as Joint-heirs with Christ,” “as Israel,” “as The Righteous,” “as The ransomed of the Lord,” “as the Salt,” “as God’s sheep,” “as Trees of Righteousness,” “as Vessels of Honor” “as Vessels of Mercy”

Add in the fact that a journey the other direction after this life is the single most horrific experience imaginable and we have great motivation to be part of those headed to heaven rather than those headed to hell once this life is through. I hope that I have made a sound case for the benefit of seeking God in spirit and truth in this life, in allowing, through faith and love, for the self to perish, and the hope that lies ahead for those who keep their eyes on Christ, the author and finisher of the faith.

Now then . . . what about the other group? I’ve divided the world of individuals into two groups –

The Question of Eternal Fate

One headed to heaven and one headed to hell. In light of scripture like John 12:32 (and others) what do we say of the others? Traditionally speaking, Christianity in general has maintained that believers go to heaven and unbelievers to hell forever and ever and ever. I used to accept this without reservation and, if I discover in the future, either by scripture or God that I am wrong I will teach the stance again. But how do we take the passages we’ve discussed and balance them with this idea?

God's Nature and Eternal Fate

Even more to the point, how do we say that God who is Love, All Knowing, All powerful, and Desires all to be saved, and who sent His Son to save the world… How do we understand the idea that most of the world is not only forever lost from God but is suffering eternally for their choice for faithlessness? We’ve come up with some interesting solutions. I challenge them. And we will use the Bible to do it.

So let’s begin in first Corinthians 15 where Paul presents a picture for us about “all things becoming subject to the Father.” Speaking of the resurrection from the dead he says (beginning at verse 23)

23 “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (Believers) 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. (LISTEN) 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Examining Hell and God's Will

We know hell is a reality. We know people go there and we know it is described paradoxically as a place of flame and torment but also a place of darkness. But we also know from scripture 1st Timothy 2:4 that says, speaking of God, “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” We know from scripture that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, and we know from scripture that God does some amazing things to bring as many as possible to saving truths.

Finally, we know that God elected the nation of Israel, as a people, to do certain things – bring forth the Law, the scripture, and the Messiah. Now stay with me. When the Nation of Israel were “in the game” they really thought that they were all that, didn’t they? They looked down on sinners and gentiles and the great unwashed and believed the sun rose and set on them, right? When they were told that the “great unwashed” (the Gentiles) would be accepted of God, they resisted the notion. But contrary to their ideas, the Lord did open the gates to all, didn’t He?

And from both the House of Israel and the Gentiles Christ has gathered unto Himself a bride (or a church) – and we were elected to do certain things to help bring about God’s ultimate will, right? (LB) Is it possible, that just as the Jews thought that they were all that and no others were allowed, that we, as the body of Christ, could be making the same mistake when we consider the fate of those who do not go to heaven at death? Is it possible that those who go to the lake of fire, once bowing and confessing, will too, come forth and bring to fruition God’s will that “all men be saved?”

Why does Jesus remain at the right hand of the God until a specific time… until all His enemies have been placed under His feet? Who are His enemies? And where are they located? Are they in hell? The Lake of Fire? And exactly how does God make them His footstool? Are they in a big pile of souls serving as a pillow under his feet? What does this look like? What does God look like in this picture? What does the imagery suggest?

So, as we would do when faced with any sort of philosophical problem, we have to…

God's Sovereignty in Scripture

Go back – way back – and try to see what scripture actually says about all of this rather than man. Now, the Calvinists have a point of view that is centered on what they call God’s Sovereignty. To them, He does His will irrespective of the will and ways of Man. This premise is sort of summarized by the “I” in the well-known acronym T.U.L.I.P. (which stands for irresistible grace). Irresistible Grace essentially says that God is totally and completely sovereign and if He will’s you to believe, you will believe – there’s no choice on your part – His grace is irresistible. I FULLY embrace the idea that God is sovereign and that His will is done. Scripture supports this completely. Let me give you some examples which may surprise some of you.

Consider:

Psalms 115:3
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

Proverbs 19:21 which says
“There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.”

Jesus said in Matthew 19:26
“with God all things are possible.”

Ephesians 1:11 (puts a sharp end on this point saying – speaking of Jesus it says),
“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.”

Examples of Sovereignty

That passage in and of itself seems to support the idea of irresistible grace – that God chooses, we do not, and those who are chosen are, and those who are not, are not. Revelation 4:11 says, “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Daniel 4:35 adds
“And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

Psalms 24:1
“The earth [is] the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.”

Controversial Implications

Proverbs 16:4 says something interesting, something that troubles many:
“The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.”

And listen to Isaiah 45:5-9
“I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?”

Echoing these sentiments Romans 9:21 says
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?”

From these passages (and many, many more) we KNOW God does “whatever He pleases” . . . “that His counsels will stand” . . . that “with Him all things are possible” . . . “that we are predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will” . . . and “that He even created all things for His own pleasure ???”

When we read in Proverbs that “He made all things for Himself, even the wicked,” and in Isaiah it says “He created evil” and in Romans 9 it says “He has the power to create one vessel for honor and another for dishonor” (one for heaven and one for hell) what are we to think!!!??? It certainly sounds like God is a sovereign – even a despotic – God . . . at least that is the way Calvinism presents Him. But then we read passages like James 1:3 which says: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”

Does this speak to free will of man? In the face of a sovereign God does man have free will? Consider 1st John 1:5

Understanding God's Nature

which says: “This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, “that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”

God's Characteristics

There are so many passages that speak of God as loving, more merciful than a cold glass of water in a hot desert, more longsuffering than a thousand Jobs and more forgiving than any human parent. How to understand? Would a loving, good, kind, merciful God even create human beings, of His own good will and pleasure knowing full well that the majority of them would burn eternally in incomprehensible suffering?

Continued Exploration

MORE NEXT WEEK.

Q and A