Heart of the Matter Broadcast

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we try and get all people to walk toward the love of Jesus Christ.

And I am Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host. Let’s have a prayer.

PRAYER

Wow – BOY – do we have a lot to talk about, bring forward, and discuss tonight. But we WANT YOUR CALLS – if you are so inclined, so here is our NUMBER: 801 593-8417. We won’t get to calls for about 20 minutes, but give us a ring and tell us what you are thinking.

Recent Interviews and Upcoming Series

First things first. Yesterday and today, Seth and Wendy and I spent 8 hours recording two really important interviews. The first we aired last night with street preacher Paul Gee, and next week we will air Part II of that, where I am able to really speak honestly with Paul about going to LDS general conferences and talking to people there. TUNE IN TO THAT.

Then this afternoon, we sat down for 3 or 4 hours and taped a conversation with myself and Denver Snuffer – which will begin airing – along with follow-up discussion – on Monday Night, October 21st, 2019. For those of you who don’t know, Denver Snuffer is a former LDS man, an appellate attorney, who is behind a popular movement among ex-LDS folks. You DO NOT want to miss these interviews with Denver as they begin being aired Monday Night, October 21st, 2019 – right here on HEART OF THE MATTER.

But then – beginning Monday Night, October 28th, 2019 – we will embark on a four-part series where I line by line defend myself against some recently filed charges. I will say no more about them at this time. What I will say, however, is that I consider these charges and the slanted way that they have been presented, as an opportunity to explain myself in the face of accusation and even more importantly, to make it an open opportunity for you to be part of an online jury to decide if the charges against me by my accuser are sound.

This four-part series will either be a vindication or a conviction for me personally, but it is also a chance for you to decide if I am the anti-Christ my accuser makes me out to be. This WILL BE REALLY GOOD. STAY FREAKING TUNED as a means to TEST . . . ALL . . . THINGS.

Bible Study and Archived Teachings

FINALLY – Do you want to learn your Bible without being mindwarped by tradition and demands? We TEACH through the New Testament VERSE BY VERSETGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty. twice on Sunday of every week and all of our teachings are archived.

So you can join us live on any given Sunday, OR you can watch from the archives. But if you are having trouble finding a church, you are welcome – I can guarantee you this – you will learn, and you will think. Just go to CAMPUS CHURCH.TV for more information or to tune in.

Okay, last week we had the joy – the great pleasure of listening to our sister and friend, Angela Kelly, who first talked about her own life experiences, and then in part II stunned us all with her insights into the dangers and simple destructiveness of polygamy.

Some of your online comments included the following:

Sue Z5 days ago (edited)

The biggest question – why didn’t they tell you the truth? The Mormon church is a Cult. Telling you what you can and cannot read. They are afraid the members will hear the truth about the scandalous history and things accessible to learn the truth now on in their church. CES letter. Realizing JS was the biggest Con of this world. It’s been difficult getting all their teachings out of my brain. They lie, lie, lie so true.

What many people don’t understand is that leaving the church you trusted is really really painful for some. It's like a divorce from a spouse you loved but you found out was a deceiver and a manipulator of your heart, time, and mind. This person writes me quite often – so much so I had to tell her that I am not the person to come to – that would be putting myself in the position of another source of truth. I can be wrong. Men are wrong. And much of what I say is OPINION. But the pain people feel is real – and Mormonism IS the cause of it.

Ken Olson1 week ago
The internet is to Mormonism, as the printing…

Reflections on Angela Kelly's Interview

Barbara Hawkins: Angela, you’re a brave woman… and it’ll further your healing! Great interview!

Melissa B.: Great Interview. Like this Shawn. Thank you for being such a great mediator on these interviews.

Chris Cockrell: Sexual abuse due to divorce. Wow, never considered that. I like the way she thinks.

Contact 3601: Fantastic interview Shawn! Angela Kelly was open, and very informative! Especially when it came to her attitude, and feelings of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you to you, and Kelly for making this interview possible. I truly recommend it! To one, and all. God bless. From England.

hrachouhi87: Soo fascinating! Can't wait for part 2! Also her demeanor and voice is super nice to listen to! I could hear her talk all day. She does have a nice voice huh. Very soothing and confident.

Responses and Reactions

Bry: Oh boy. I'm gonna have to repent after watching her 🙂 I have the feeling Bry you are gonna have to repent after far more than that!!!

S Hale: Our stories are sooooo similar. I waited 10 years to get sealed to my second husband, since I wasn't sure if I wanted to be sealed. I totally get it. We finally got divorced after 15 years. Also found my second husband on LDS singles 16 years ago.

H Bendzulla: Most honest and outspoken interview. Angela Kelley you are a true warrior.

Realtruthtv: Hun don’t go to evangelical churches go to the first church holy church. Now, I have issue with this person. First of all, he starts all of his or her comments off with HUN, then he or she always has corrective things to say. Always. He or she is a religionist. There is a right way to her and he believes he has it. I have a suggestion for you – girl, don’t go away mad, but girl, just go away. The world is tired of this.

Insights and Continued Dialogue

Laura Odle: Looking forward to pt.2. So then in response to Part II with Angela Kelly (which again was fantastic) we read:

Cathleen Hansen: Brigham Young said “brethren if you want a fresh one come see me," I’m paraphrasing. You can look it up. In my heart I think he was a bastard. And Joe Smith was an egomaniac.

Jelene Gouty: One of the BEST 2 interviews Shawn has done. Thank you Angela Kelly for sharing. REALLY to the heart of the matter.

Thomas Stollings: Amazing young lady. I learned things I never knew.

3 Itty Bitty Piggies Story Time: Religious polygamy is the very worst, extra coercive. We need to get coercion and manipulation, which lead to abuse, out of regular marriage, on BOTH sides, which we ignore. Great points, wonderful interviews. Thanks! Coercion is so prevalent in general religious "agency" and doctrines. Traditional or Pharisaical "Christianity" does not bring equality to marriage. "Christian" zealots quote Timothy to back that, even though Timothy is Pseudepigrapha (counterfeit writing in Paul's name – someone wanting to put words in god's mouth – just like Mormonism, and polygamy). Also based on the rights and expectations in current proper Christian marriage, both sides can end up perceiving rights and even superior rights (either side) and trying to force them, making things worse. They abuse their partner, either side, over this. Hundreds of Studies show that males do NOT dominate in spouse or child abuse (the dirtiest "secret"). An analysis of this problem and why the marriage vows might fuel this would be a fascinating show. What are the ideal vows and expectations going into and during marriage to keep the abuse and ownership away, on BOTH sides? To be a currently faithful Mormon you have to be willing and ready to obediently live polygamy throughout eternity without questioning the Leaders about this. This terrorizes many Mormon men and women who dare not speak up and say so. It takes very pompous Leaders to not abolish it in scripture, doctrine, and current teachings, and apologize for all the abuse and damage, even currently.

Aslynne Caron: Hello Shawn & Angela! Thank you for sharing your life story, I can resonate in many ways. Thank you both for what you do.

E Christian: Great interview.

H Bendzulla: It’s not just interesting, you’re touching the evolution of proper marriage. I really mean proper. The world is moving more to live without it, marriage somehow will exist as long as there are intelligent humans roaming on this earth. Please finish the book you’re working on, it will be.

Reflections on Polygamy and Faith

Thank You!!!! I learned sooo much about polygamy!!!

Loved the questions and viewpoints. She is very wise in her approach. She completely ignores individual choice, which is a very big deal to me.

Wow learned some new things. Thanks

Gosh! It really surprised me how upsetting, l found this second part of the interview. I guess, it hit a nerve! Being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be quite challenging as a woman, and it can be intense. You give your all! Your trust, your obedience and in some circumstances even your free will. Depending on the branch president, or bishop at the time. A branch or ward can thrive! But love and compassion and the true teachings of Jesus Christ must be his only motivation! However, this is not always the case. In those situations, your membership in that ward or branch can become a living hell. Where do you turn, who do you trust! Do you speak out, or keep silent? If you speak out! You will be labelled as a troublemaker! someone who is not a true (submissive) believer/member. I love my Savior, with all of my heart! And l love the church. But!! Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So please tell me, where dose one go from there. Many thanks Shawn, for everything! Moira from England.

This was a lot of fun to sit down and finally chat with Shawn. I have really enjoyed his videos – it's nice to get some sarcasm in the midst of what can sometimes feel insane. Thank you!

Insights on the Church and its Teachings

Wow. That was amazing. Angela is amazing.

This is brilliant! I, like Shawn, am amazed by the truths learned through this interview. Amazing information regarding the lack of the word Love in the Mormon temple ceremony. Isn’t God LOVE?

Angela you are right on. I lived in a polygamous group for 13 years. I witnessed some marriages where the girls were called in the morning and told they were going to be married that afternoon! They had no say. They looked like they wanted to die! When I knelt at the end of the altar to give my husband another wife, I thought I was going to die! I knew if I didn’t leave I was going to die physically. I already felt that I had died emotionally, mentally, very much socially, and spiritually. It was pure hell. My husband was Tarzan and the women are the chimpanzees! I praise God every day that I got out. I did a video called “Lifting The Veil Of Polygamy”. It’s on YouTube. Thank you for all you are doing. God bless you.

Angela is amazing! Brilliant

Omigosh I love this video. Angela is so intelligent. She knows what she’s talking about.

Excellent

Differing Perspectives on Libertarianism and Religion

Her political approach is super interesting.

Interesting interview and she has a very unique take. I do have a question though: 29:16 – "Do I care if a man has sex with 5 women, or a woman has sex with 10 guys? I don't care." 45:00 – "A religion should not tell you what to wear, what to eat, what to drink… That's not religion. Religion should be spiritual only." Those two quotes seem that the guest is very libertarian in regards to life and faith. But…. 51:56 – "Everyone thinks they can have sex with whoever they want. Is that how life really works that we can do whatever we feel like doing without any widespread consequences? In all things: alcohol, drugs, sex, money, you name it."

This looks like a contradiction or some cognitive dissonance on face value. Is there a way to clarify this? I am struggling to see how both these stances can co-exist.

There is only one way to Heaven. Jesus said "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one cometh to the Father but by Me." We are all sinners. I am just a sinner saved by grace.

Hun we do go to heaven or hell life is not about finding happiness it’s about serving Jesus Christ and you will suffer for that… if you wanna be happy sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. 24/7 if you want peace and joy and confidence and Gods spirit follow Jesus Christ 100%

men think they are superior to females anyway.so lets throw in polygamy and their egos skyrocket. anyone

Discussion on Polygamy and Marriage

Who could inflict polygamy on his wife does not and never did love her. It is the most violent emotional thing you can do to a woman. And by the way, it would be the same if a woman took additional husbands. It takes the two shall be one and let no one come between them and shreds it. The most holy marriage is an elderly couple who still hold hands and sit next to each other when they are together. They become one. There is no way that ever can happen in polygamy.

Reflections from the Audience

Then last night we aired our interview with Paul Gee and while part one was interesting, Part II was pretty interesting as we sort of “got into it” (RESPECTFULLY)

Anyway, regarding last night's Part I show

Bry 13 hours ago Love the show but maybe have beer or mixed drinks available. You know, it would be fun to have a show with a bit of drinking being shared with the guests. Maybe someday.

Indigochild7910 10 hours ago Love the show, God bless

MOIRA Who is LDS wrote

A very sincere, and heartfelt interview, which I truly appreciated. Wonderful! How this brother, in Christ, found at last a true and loving relationship with his savior. I just loved it when he said, I'm now going to stop focusing less on Mormonism and more on Jesus Christ. Wow! That really hit me like a lightning bolt! Straight to the heart. I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. And I know the Lord will use it to make many turn to him. And they will be changed, like he changed in me. Praise be to the Lord. He is truly opening the eyes and hearts of those who are sincerely searching for him! And Shawn, isn't that amazing! God bless you, and all your team for your willingness to share the love and saving message of the one true messiah Jesus Christ. Keep up the good work, Shawn. Many thanks. Moira From England.

And finally, JP Wentworth wrote:

P Wentworth 13 hours ago

Show Details and Future Plans

Show 10B Paul Gee Monday Interview Follow-up October 8th 2019

DESCRIPTION: Follow-up to interviews with Angela Kelly and Paul Gee

KEYWORDS: Polygamy, Plural Marriage, Preaching, Sin, God, Rebirth, Saved, Christian, inheritance, heaven, hell, Reconciliation, Bible, The Bible, New Jerusalem, End of Religion, Love, General Conference

CONCLUSION

Remember, share the show with others for us, will you? And subscribe if you haven’t already. And tune in next week on Monday Night – as we air part two with Street Preacher Paul Gee – HERE ON HEART OF THE MATTER!

Interactive Discussions

WORD ASSOCIATION – I will say a word (or phrase) related to four categories (ten words each) and you give your thoughts. The categories are social issues, Mormonism, Doctrinal Basics and finally on Yourself.

I want to use your answers to launch us into mini discussions based on the topic covered alone. We could be here all year because there are forty of them so you will have to become the king of sound bytes:

Social Issues

1. Government
2. United States
3. Utah
4. Marijuana
5. Abortion
6. Homosexuality
7. Capital Punishment
8. Polygamy
9. Evangelicalism
10. Roman Catholicism

Mormonism

1. Brigham Young
2. Joseph Smith
3. Brigham Young
4. Joseph Smith
5. Women Priesthood
6. Water Baptism
7. Sabbath Day
8. Tithing
9. Word of Wisdom
10. Apostasy

The Basics in Doc

1. God the Father
2. Jesus Christ
3. Holy Spirit
4. Satan
5. Hell
6. Purpose of Life
7. Bible
8. Second ComingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world.?
9. Highest Degree of the Celestial Kingdom
10. Salvation

Yourself

1. Denver Snuffer
2. Are you a prophet?
3. Have you seen Jesus?
4. Are you the head of this dispensation?
5. Do you allow people who disagree with you to remain in your groups?
6. Temples
7. Your Authority
8. Can someone receive revelation that trumps yours?
9. LOVE