Heart of the Matter

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we try and get all people to walk toward the love of Jesus Christ. And I am Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Let’s have a prayer.

Denver Snuffer Interview Follow-Up

Show 12 B
Follow-up to shows 12A (1, 2, and 3)
with Denver Snuffer
with Special Guest Teah Tupou
October 22nd 2019

Okay, we sat for three hours with Denver Snuffer last week. Then we aired those three hours starting Thursday with part one, Saturday with Part II, and last night with Part III. There was a lot said and apparently from the reports I received from a few, a lot not said as well. I want to say right off the bat that Denver is certainly both likeable and knowledgeable. No question. Additionally, many things he said resonated well in my heart. However, I have to also add that we do not know truth via liking others. This point – knowing the Truth – will be discussed in a moment.

Audience Reactions to Part I

In response to Part I (aired Thursday) we got the following comments:

thenowchurch Denver seems to be a real cool cat. That story about him and his friend realizing they had both stopped drinking due to Mormonism and Black Muslim conversions was hilarious and fascinating.

ElviraPhins I find it interesting that his story of becoming a Mormon sounds like a person leaving Mormonism. Fear of upsetting parents, losing friends, sacrificing a way of life.

Patrick wrote This was boring. I hope it gets more interesting in the next parts.

Perhaps I tainted Patrick’s view of part I as I did not find it revelatory but bland and anecdotal. But everyone is different and from what I am told Denver addresses subjects in the manner we observed in part I.

Ronald Luke I was glad to hear Denver on your show.

mi haj wrote: Sounds like chickens running around with no rooster. No idea what that means

Scott Weinmann Interesting interview..different..very well done

Kenneth Bailey wrote something hilarious in my book, saying: When I became a Mormon the hardest thing for me to give up was snoose. I finally gave in and returned to my good old cowboy Copenhagen snuff or snoose as the Norwegians called it. I quit the church soon after because I loved my snoose and I didn’t want to be a hypocrite. Well, that and I was having lots of sex as often as I could. Guess I figured God would forgive me if I got killed in combat because as the old saying went: Another Marine reporting sir, I’ve served my time in hell. This came from my WWII Marine uncles and it kept from going crazy. One other problem I had with Mormonism was my love of beer which I often lived on in the jungle.

Thomas Freestone said I wanna hear more. indigochild793 days ago (edited) I hope Denver flips out in part 2 and tell some super weird prophecy about a secret UFO under the Nauvoo temple that will take all Mormons to Kolob in the future….

Audience Reactions to Part II

Max Frank3 days ago On a Thursday? What gives?

Bubble Popper22 hours ago I quite like Denver. Would never follow any arm of Mormonism because I only follow Jesus. But I could totally be friends with this lovely man.

Then in Part II the audience began to get a bit more divided, as seen in the following remarks:

DM MD This man is at the least inspired to redirect the course of Mormonism.

C Whitener He talked a lot and did not say much. This was worse than part one.

camel driver The thing I got from this is, Denver received personal revelation[s] for himself. Shawn bobbing his head every 2 sec's. Yet, 2 opposite people in mannerism and speech

indigochild79 Still waiting for Denver to go bananas with some wild UFO prophecy. Denver has that uncomfortable calm before the storm…..

JEAN1 day ago Very interesting (said in a German accent).

Paige T All I honestly see here is an older more intelligent Nemelka

15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his aSpirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; I have enough of the spirit of discernment to judge.

A Polarizing Discussion: Insights from Denver Snuffer

Between thee & a True Prophet of God who is Russel M. Nelson.

Joseph Smith meets L Ron Hubbard what a strange individual. Just goes to show seemingly intelligent people are $&@@$)). This guy avoided almost everything with great tactics. I mean the whole WWII thing? Really? At the same time very proud and not humble at all.

Mr. Snuffer can not make his point concisely! And then from our final and third part which aired last night we read:

Getting Interesting…

On the supportive side we got…

Excellent. Shawn was brave to have Denver on. If Shawn reads Come Let Us Adore Him, esp the chapter entitled Gethsemane, he will see that he just interviewed a person that has met Christ, knows Him intimately, and is actual special Witness of his divinity.

Denver's book still available for purchase? Got it, Amazon. Cheers.

A horizon, seen with our eyes, is flat not curved unless you’re looking at it with a fisheye lens.

Mankind will experience the divine in the time and manner that will best serve them and God's purposes.

Fascinating, much learned from Mr. Snuffer. Thanks Shawn.

Excited for part 3. Good job Shawn and Denver.

Views on Organized Religion

I haven’t read Mr. Snuffer’s books but I understand what he is saying here even though we didn’t ride into camp on the same horse. Both of us demand the right to ask our questions, knowing full well that the narrative of organized religion will resist our claimed right to ask questions because it threatens their power. That’s why I have always enjoyed ‘Heart of the Matter’—it is always a bit rebellious (just like Jesus).

I would not try to correct Denver Snuffer. I feel he’s very knowledgeable and factual in reference to gospel and the LDS CHURCH system. I read several books in reference to LDS history als 2 different books pertaining to the Mountain Meadow Massacre. I give this man 10 stars. Very interesting interview.

Then finally, ExMormon4ChristAlone, pointed out:

If you notice, YouTube has a huge number of exmormon channels now. Most of these people cannot get rid of the cult mindset. They have moved from needing to follow their leader to now seeking followers on their channel. I enjoy heart of the matter so much because it is not about chasing religion or following people. It is literally encouraging people to follow Christ alone and love others. To anyone watching any of the exmormon YouTube movement channels, know that most of those people cannot get rid of cult mindset and move on. They have just moved from followers to wanting to be followed. They are constantly trying to make sense out of the fact they followed a false religion. Most are "ever searching but never coming to a knowledge of the truth" of Christ alone. Keep up the good work and keep preaching Christ alone Shawn and not religion.

Reflections on Denver Snuffer's Interview

Last night we aired our third hour with Denver, which I found the most valuable in terms of information from the man. Here some of the comments truly polarized:

Forget truncated answers. Have longer, multiple interviews per John Dehlin. Absolutely LOVE how Shawn doesn't hardly ever interrupt and allows guest to talk. So give Denver the floor and…it takes as long as it takes. Excellent show and interview. When Shawn does ask questions, they are insightful and revealing. Keep up the good work. CHEERS.

That was a good interview.

Very interesting man with some great insights, but look to the spirit in Jesus for eternal life questions.

Beer fine? Count me in!!!

He needs to change his name to “Dancin’ Snuffer” cuz he loves to dance around questions. I would love to hear Shawn’s answers in contrast to Denver’s when being questioned about Evangelicals, abortion, etc. I know he probably already answered those questions in previous shows. But just a recap on them and his current views would be interesting in my opinion.

Denver needs to define where you tithe.

So ready.

Catholics changed the sabbath day. It’s supposed to be Friday day at sunset to Saturday sunset in your residing country. Sunday is the Sun worship day! Constantine never denounced his Pagan roots and was a sun worshipper! Given that he never denounced or openly repented his roots, anything he did after his so-called conversion to Christ is suspect!!!

Denver Snuffer and His Claims

Denver is NO prophet of a new dispensation. He does not claim to be one? Has the LDS lost its way? Maybe?

Seno Bobby
Truth is truth

H Bendzulla
You can and probably will get serious kidney and liver problem like cancer from wine. Also Joe Smith was a tough dude, before he got shot, he apparently killed 2 of his enemies with a gun he asked for. I do like the baptism in outdoor rivers or lakes. What about the baptism for the dead? I would definitely like a Book of Duffer, instead of the B of M. Love the interview.

And Steven Retz
Snuffer's followers kick out people on a regular basis if they don't conform

Comparing Denver Snuffer

There are some really important points to be made and asked in the face of these interviews with Denver – Besides liking or disliking the man, what did you think of his assessment of all things Christian? Is Denver to be trusted as any sort of an oracle for God?

What is the difference, if any, between Denver Snuffer and, let’s say, Chris Nemelka? Joseph Smith? David Koresh? Or Russel M Nielson? Quite frankly, what is the difference between Denver and any other person who claims to have heard from and or seen Jesus and other heavenly visitors? Even more frankly, what is the difference between Denver and a Pastor who claims to be speaking by the Spirit, or claims to have the authority from God to provide correct interpretation of scripture. Should he be seen as a prophet today similar to Moses or another Prophet of the LDS dispensation?

Was Denver open and transparent with us? I have been told that he, in the spirit of not casting his pearls before swine, hid his more controversial teachings from the interview. I don’t know if that is true or not. All I can say is we did not have Denver on the show to belittle him or to challenge him live or even now. I could have done that and he could have responded. But we honestly had him on Heart so we could hear from his own mouth the message He feels led to give the world – and to his followers – of which he has a number of.

Personal Reflection on Denver's Message

For the most part, I had no problem with most of what he said – although I differ greatly with his end-time views and beliefs in ushering in the Second ComingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world. of Christ. Like many of you, I liked him as a man – but this has really nothing to do with whether he is speaking heavenly truth or not. In many ways Denver presents us with the same predicament people face with Joseph Smith, Chris Nemelka, or any person who claims to have heavenly visions and revelations – Did he or does he see heavenly visions, or not? And how can we tell?

Seeking Truth and Freedom

I am personally convinced that seekers will find the Truth which will set them free. Whatever a person allows in their life to get in the way of this freedom is up to them. It’s a personal choice and one we are all responsible for making. Again – God through Christ offers liberty and a freedom that this world – or the things in it – cannot provide. But it is up to each and every person how much freedom they really seek, and desire – and however they answer that, will determine what they let in between them and God. If you ever find yourself displeased with any form of bondage you are experiencing in this life, seek Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life. As such, you can be set free.

Introduction of Teah Tupou

I want to introduce to you all tonight a young man who represents an unorthodox, but actually a rational follow-up guest to Denver. He and I are friends and I know him, indirectly, because of Denver’s ministry. He’s a good and affable man – a Tongan, as it were, who in relation to the Denver interviews brings to us an extremely unique perspective. His name is “Teah Tupou” and our short time together will bring to light some other factors all of us must consider in the face of the claims men and women similar to Denver make.

Teah – welcome.

NOTES FOR TEAH

Wrap-up:

Next week folks, you want to join us – Monday night and then Tuesday Night as a follow-up – as I respond directly to a full-frontal video attack on my person, views, and ministry, from a local Orthodox Presbyterian pastor. This may just be the best opportunity.

Explanation of Self and Ministry

I have ever had to explain myself and the ministry – and for YOU all to decide between religious tradition and Anarchy – right here on Heart of the Matter!