Religious Zealotry: Exploring Extremes
Live from Show 16B Follow Up to 16A
LIVE SHOW
Tuesday November 19th 2019
Announcements
Hey everyone! Do you have anyone in your life that was once a Christian but is now an atheist? Perhaps a son or daughter who attended Christian school and was summarily ruined by it and now wants nothing to do with the faith? Maybe you know someone who loves the LORD but has become really bitter toward the Bible and the use of it by zealous believers?
We have the gift for you. It’s a book called Knife to a Gunfight. We want it to get into the right hands. So get online and order it or if you can’t afford one email us and give us a mailing address and we will send you one – unless you are overseas and then the best we can do is direct you to our website where people can listen to the Book through audio.
Listen – we do not create these books for money. We create them for you to have resources to change people’s minds and hearts and therefore their lives FOR THE BETTER through the truth about God and Christ. So come forth and get your copy one way or another. And if YOU haven’t read it yourself, check it out. We think it is one of our best written works.
Sunday’s Best Conference
So listen, we are working on a two day conference called Sundays Best for the Spring of 2020. We are looking for two qualified presenters to stand before the cameras and explain why they think their approach to the faith is “best.” We are looking for a pastor that is Arminian, Reformed and an Orthodox priest (or someone who can articulate Orthodoxy really well.)
Relative to Reformed Theology I mentioned that we invited James White and or Jeff Durbin but both refused. So if there are others out there open to it from that perspective – tell them about it. People are saying Dave Bartosiewitz ought to come and represent Orthodoxy but in the first place, he is a novice in the faith (and full of zeal for it which might be unfair to Orthodoxy itself) and two, Dave blocked me from all engagement sources, so I have no way of contacting him.
So, if YOU know people who can fit the bill for these two spots please contact them and tell them to contact me – For Sunday’s Best – Spring 2020. As I said before, we have committed speakers for Judaism, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Subjective Christianity, and the Remnant Movement – just need Arianism, Calvinism and Orthodoxy.
Extremes in Religious Zealotry
I’ve been kind of on a thought-kick surrounding religious zealots. Ever give much thought to them? I do because I used to be one – twice actually – and I reflect upon how I got to that point in my life. A couple of thoughts relative to Religious zealotry before we proceed with coverage of last night's show. I realized that Evidence of Religious Zeal manifests best in the extremes.
First we have the FAR RIGHT religious zeal. These are the people who take God and make every single thing on earth, and life, and in death about Him.
- LEFT Zealously maintain that there is Absolutely No God
- RIGHT Everything is Absolutely God
Since this is true there is no heavenly destiny but typically there is a destined fate.
God destines or predestines everything – EVERYTHING
Totally absent in everything
Totally present in everything
Constant subject of every conversation
Constant subject of every conversation
Sees others as stupid
These typically see others as evil who are not as zealous as them
Life is meaningless
Life is all about God
Typically Biblical Literalists
Typically Biblical literalist
Same mindset driving them but with opposite attitudes. One is “hyper-negative” the other is one is “hyper-positive” about God.
And interestingly enough, both are extremely dangerous to the Faith – especially on youth and young people who fall prey to their rhetoric.
From the Zealous right we get six day literal creation. From the Zealous left we get the impossibility of any sort of creative hand.
From the Zealous Right we get mandates on life and living, on how to believe, on musts in order to be received as a real Christian, and in response from the Zealous Left we get mockery for the demands from the right – because they in many ways deserve mockery.
It is all such a shame, but
Religious Zeal and Rational Faith
To me, the shame is especially embarrassing on the part of the Zealous Right. I get their zeal – it's well-meaning, and they really want to please God through their ardent stances for biblical truth. I can say this because that is what drove me both as a Mormon and as an Evangelical – religious zeal.
Where is the middle ground? Better put, the reason? Doesn’t God say, "Come, let us reason together?"
R – Rationality
E – All Evidences
A – All Assumptions
S – All Suppositions
O – All Oppositions
N – Neutrality based on Him
I get the atheist. Without the Spirit of God, they see as natural men and women, and therefore their views are expected. But the Zealous Right views almost always create an attitude of indifference toward other people, toward the love that God is, and toward reason, and it fascinates me how honest believers and lovers of God can remain in the Right Zealous state of mind. Just some rambling thoughts for your consideration.
Modern Scribes and the Quest for Truth
Finally, and speaking of zeal, we come to an interesting example of it in these New Testament folks called both scribes or lawyers. They were the apparent experts in interpreting the Law of Moses and the Prophets. They are mentioned as coming to Jesus, along with the Pharisees and Sadducees, and challenging him with “what is written.” Isn’t that amazing that here in 2019 we continue to have scribes on earth today who, using the written word (which they seem to think they are the experts in) challenge the views of others who differ with their opinions. This is EXACTLY what Jesus faced with them in His day.
In John 5:39 Jesus told these scribal experts: “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” Is not this the same situation? That in all their study and recitation of the scripture, our modern scribes think that they have eternal life but the reality is life exists in Christ Jesus alone? Has not the man-made Protestant cliché of Sola Scriptura created this approach in the hearts of zealous men and women today, who in the mud-puddles of all of their knowledge miss the point of Jesus altogether and the victor over all things, making him the complete reconciler to God once and for all? Some more things to think about.
Salvation and the Holy Spirit
So last week – on Tuesday night – I attempted to make a point about how I would do church today IF – IF I didn’t believe that Jesus had come back. And I based what I said on what the Apostles said to the church in that day – which is all over the New Testament narrative on how to be.
So let me hit some of the emails we got from that show:
John OReardon wrote:
Can anyone help me. Is this on every night or once a week? I live in Ireland Dublin and only caught this by chance. It was at 3am. Thanks and God bless everyone…
(EXPLAIN FOR JOHN)
Understanding Salvation
Joan Lantis asks a great question, saying: “If you can’t lose the Holy Ghost within you, then how can you lose your salvation?” I hate to be a hair-splitter my sister, but there is no losing salvation, nor is there losing the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is indwelling based on faith in Jesus Christ. It does not leave or abandon us in the face of mistakes or sin or even doubts but is with us more (in my estimation). However, if a person renounces faith in a once and for all rejection of Christ, THEY walk from the faith, and the Holy Spirit, which was in them by faith, walks too. This is not a back-and-forth thing. It is a once and for all thing. The New Testament scriptures are REPLETE with support for this teaching, including:
Hebrews 6:4 makes this point plain, saying:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Nick Ex.
“I rarely disagree with Shawn but damn I have to flat out reject this video. Saved By Grace Alone by faith alone is the Truth. It is the Goodness.”
Salvation and Faith
of God that brings us to repentance. I’m afraid of Shawn when he stated grace alone, hyper grace etc. We are saved by the blood of Christ by Grace alone. No works added from the sinner to the perfect work of God!
Now with that being said we should not have dead faith but faith that is alive. We our free to chose. Laborers are few sadly. God’s Spirit brings inspiration and moves within us toward good works and doing as Christ would do. Saved already toward good works letting our light shine. Do not disrespect the Blood of Christ by saying hyper grace or easy Believing or grace alone.
Remember Jesus life was the price that was paid for us to live. DO NOT TAKE THAT LIGHTLY. That is what works based Salvation aka Mormons do. The LDS church is false. I support shawns cause, I am ex LDS, Shawn is right we should live the teachings of Christ, the same teachings and commandments that God has written on Our new heart. But Holiness and righteousness can only Come from Faith alone in The Messiah Christ Jesus.
Ps. When can I get on the show? I live in st. George. Let’s make it happen. (you email me, brother and we’ll talk)
The Coin of Salvation
I wrote back to this brother and said:
You need to relisten to what I said brother. Truly. The context of my comments. And I concur with everything you wrote here. Salvation is by grace through faith. But the expectations on those saved is what I was referring to in that show. It was all based on eschatology. If Jesus has not come, the apostolic record is clear – you better walk in holiness. That was what they said, not me. The COIN of Salvation is two sided, brother.
On the one side is faith in Jesus Christ. It is the head side and it is the determining factor of salvation. But with it – this coin, this heads side, automatically comes the tails side – love. Love for God and love for neighbor. You cannot get the Coin of Salvation with only the Faith side. The New Testament narrative proves this. LOVE (for God and neighbor) ALWAYS comes with genuine salvation. If it is never present, we have to question what coin a person possesses.
Phoenix the Cavalier If you want to see a church that thinks they are living the bible literally check out westborro baptist church
AMEN to that, Phoen!
Orthodoxy and Wine
And then finally Jim Loizos got hot under the collar for my comments on wine and drunkenness and Orthodoxy last week, writing:
So last year you told Dave Bartolowitz (sp) you knew very little about orthodoxy. (last Year that was true) Now you know that many of the Greek orthodox get drunk every weekend. (I do know this – and whether its once or every weekend is irrelevant – Paul said be not drunk with wine. Period). I come from a large Greek orthodox family and have many friends in the church. I’m not sure how they are all hiding this “debauchery” from me, but of course you can substantiate your claim, right? Is tearing down others to build your own ministry really the right way?
I don’t tear down others to build this ministry, brother. I try to speak the truth and let people search themselves what I present. Are you suggesting that members of Orthodoxy aren’t practicing what I said? Is wine forbidden in Orthodoxy brother? Is getting drunk? Like excommunicationable???
But of course I can substantiate my claims. But here is the problem with yours. You use your experience with your version of your orthodoxy to suggest that what I said was not true. Are you being fair? In your large Greek Orthodox family and many friends you have never seen drunkenness among them? If you have, that was forbidden by Paul – and that was my point. I don’t care who gets drunk or when. Obviously you do. But PAUL is the one who laid down the law on this – and if Orthodoxy anywhere ignores his words, they are ignoring what the Bible says.
Finally, last night we posted part II on the Holy Spirit relative to the LDS.
We received the following comments regarding that presentation:
As a friendly reminder, the point and purpose of this ministry is
Freedom from Religious Demands
We do not care what people choose to believe about God, Jesus, the Bible, the second coming or anything else – because everyone believes what they want anyway.
We don’t judge you or condemn you on how you choose to follow Christ or how you choose to live your Christian walk. Carry on! But we are here to show seekers how they can, in the context of the biblical narrative, be set from FROM the demands of every organized institutional religion – if they want. That’s all.
Contextual Perspective
Along the way we choose to love all people all the time always – believers or not. Always. So don’t take what we are doing wrong. Take it in context – like you take the word.
Conclusion
We will see you next week here on HOTM!
