Heart of the Matter Broadcast Blog

Introduction

Live From The Mecca of Mormonism

• Salt Lake City, Utah –

This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 27 BOM 52 – Peeling the Onion F July 3rd, 2012. And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

Church Gathering and Schedule

Church? Find one. And if you can’t find one you are comfortable with, check us out at www.C-A-M-P-U-S.com. We meet on Sundays at the U of U. 10am and 2:30pm. Go to www.C-A-M-P-U-S.com for more information.

Also on Sundays Heart of the Matter replays on AM 820 The Truth. So tune into AM 820 the Truth. Friday Nights at 8pm (right here on TV20) tune in as Bishop Earl interviews people who were once LDS and are now born-again Christians. The name of the show? The Ex-Files. Want to be interviewed? Email Bishop Earl at www.mormonexfiles.tv.

Transitions Program

It’s the first of the month and it's time for us to promote the Transitions program. What is it? A program available to all churches around the US that helps train Christian leadership and congregates to help receive and disciple people who are coming out of Mormonism. Here is a list of “Transitions Trained” churches in the State of Utah.

If your church is not Transitions Trained, go to www.LDStransitions.com for more information about how to obtain the video modules and manual.

Events and Announcements

Alright, get your calendars out! Burning Heart 2012 will be on Saturday, September 1st at Murray Park Amphitheater beginning at 3PM. This year we are going to try and do some new things so set that date aside. In the coming weeks we’ll explain some of the new things will include more participants, a time for a Utah communion, all followed up by our annual open water baptisms in the river behind the amphitheater. Lots of great products for sale. Lots of other ministries and church booths. Set the date aside, Saturday, September 1st, 2012, Murray Park, 3 to 9pm.

Well, we kicked off our summer tour last week speaking three nights in Alabama at the First Independent Methodist Church in Decatur. Now, I ain’t never been to the south ‘cept for Flo-rida, but I gotta tell ya’ll, those people are the most friendly, kind, polite folk I have ever met! I am not kidding. Southern hospitality is alive and well in Alabama. And we had a great time together over at the First Independent Methodist Church. Thank you Jamie and Cindy Cummins for all your hard work and Pastor Hal. The turnout was great – in fact, we had supporters of the ministry upwards of 10 hours one way just to be there!

Next stop? Calvary Chapel in Norman Oklahoma. July 18th! If you live in that area . . . please join us.

Mass Exodus in Utah

It seems there was a public mass exodus held last week here in Utah? What were people exiting from – “Mormonism.” This was a highly significant (and symbolic) event and let me tell you why.

Mormonism thrives in the “shadows of reality.“ (thank you Tanners) When an individual chooses to leave the church the local leaders are able to control the effects by downplaying the exit and always assigning fault to the person who left. This is the model they have used for at least a century. Many people who leave Mormonism today are surprised by the lack of response from remaining members whom they have known and loved for years not realizing that more often than not those people are often not even aware they’re gone.

This is one of the mechanisms Mormonism employs to retain control of the group. When a single individual just sort of stops coming the leadership just keeps everything moving along as business as usual. So it is significant and very symbolic that this group of 120 LDS people made their exit together and publicly. It would be wonderful if the organizer of this “public exodus” held the event quarterly or even every month as demand grows. And while I am wholly supportive of the exodus and appreciate its significance, at the same time, it is a cause of concern.

A Canary's Release and the Ensign Peak Event

Out from under the store's overhanging façade, the man opened the box and held it to the sky. Nothing happened. So he shook the box a bit – and finally, a little yellow canary came out to the edge. The man was trying to set the animal free but it didn’t seem to know where to fly. After more shaking, the bird took off into the sky, then boomeranged right back toward the building, flying right into the pet store window, the impact causing it to fall to the ground, stunned. The man rushed over and lifted the bird from the ground and then to the sky. After a few moments, the bird took flight, landing in the branches of a nearby tree. Then, tossing the box into a trash container, the man walked away, apparently not knowing that the chance of that little canary surviving in the world, after having been raised in a cage, was slim to none.

Herein lies my concern with the Ensign Peak event. I applaud these people’s courage and willingness to publicly exit from the cage of Mormonism, but will they have the ability to establish a real relationship with God after having been so burned by this religious institution? The chances are slim. Remember, God did not have Moses lead the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage only to abandon them once they escaped. So while it is good for people to walk from the trappings of any false religion, it is just as important for them to know how to come into a relationship with the true and living God.

Misconceptions and Biblical Interpretation

And with that, how about a moment “From the Word?”

Tonight we are in John 9:1-2 where it reads:

“And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, “Master, who did sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?”

LDS apologists and missionaries will sometimes use these passages to prove their idea of a pre-mortal existence being included in the Bible saying “Why would the Jews ask Jesus if this man sinned who was born blind? Where would he have been able to sin but in the pre-mortal existence?” This is a classic example of believing in something and then finding evidence to support it (which is the LDS way of justifying their faith) rather than seeking and reading and allowing the material to provide the beliefs.

Judaism and Hellenistic Influence

We know from other passages of scripture that the ONLY human being to come from above or to have a pre-existent state was Jesus, that He was “from above” but the rest of the human race was “from beneath.” He said this Himself. So what of this question posed by Jews?

First of all, we have to remember that by the time the Lord walked the earth, Judaism was under a number of false impressions relative to truth. Almost everything that had come down from Moses had been corrupted in some form or another. Another fact is the influence of Hellenist thought upon the Jews. As Alexander the Great once ruled what would then become the Roman Empire later, Greek notions had a tremendous influence upon the Children of Israel.

According to Bible scholar Lightfoot, the Jews at this time believed in a couple of unique and errant things by the time this question was asked of the Lord . . . One was what they believed in something called, “the transmigration of souls” which said that because of sin a soul might migrate from one habitation and into another. The Hellenistic idea of all men living before this life was also popular among the Greeks, and then there was a crazy idea some Jews maintained that said an infant could, in fact, sin even in the womb. Any fact or merit to any of it – no. None.

Which is why Jesus, in a few words, cleared the misconceptions up right quickly, saying in verse 3: “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but (he was born blind) that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” This not only clears away the errant direction of the question, but testify of the marvelous and sovereign ways of the living God.

And with that, let’s have a word of Prayer.

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

Last week we presented some troubling changes the most corrected book on the face of the earth contained. Tonight, let’s examine some problems the Book of Mormonion narrative contains.

First, let’s look at what Steave Conley has called some…

Slips of the Tongue in the Onion

Translation Mistakes in the Book of Mormon

What he suggests is while translating, Joseph sought to correct mistakes he had verbally made on the spot – proving the translation was coming out of his head and not from a heavenly source.

For example, Mosiah 7:8 reads:

“they were again brought before the king . . . and were permitted, or rather commanded, that they should answer the questions . . .

Alma 5:10 says:

“I have never known much of the ways of the Lord, and his mysteries and marvelous power. I said I never had known much of these things, but behold, I mistake, for I have seen much of his mysteries and his marvelous power . . .”

Alma 24:19 reads:

“and thus we see that they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried their weapons of war for peace.”

In Alma 43:38 Joseph Smith dictated this, which Oliver recorded:

“they being shielded from the more vital parts of the body, or the more vital parts of the body being shielded from the strokes of the Lamanites.”

Language and Prophecy Issues

In 2nd Nephi 5:15 the most corrected book on the face of the earth reads:

“And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.”

But listen to the next verse!

“And I Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land.”

The Book of Mormon says that the people of Zarahemla rejoiced when Mosiah had brought them the “plates of brass which contained the record of the Jews.” But in the Book of Omni (1:17) it says that Mosiah could not understand the people of Zarahemla because their language had become corrupted. So how did they know that Mosiah had brought them plates of brass with their genealogies if they couldn’t understand each other?

Then we have clumsy writing found throughout the Book of Mormonion. For example, 2nd Nephi 4:14 actually reads:

“ . . . for a more history part are written upon mine other plates.” Huh?

Anachronistic References

Of course we have pointed out the anachronistic use of Jesus' name early in the Onion. All through the book it prophesies that “His name shall be Jesus Christ” (2nd Nephi 25:19) but Jesus did not have a last name! Christ is a title meaning “Messiah” in the Greek – a language that would not have been known to Nephi. This is like the Book of Mormon saying: “and His name shall be Jesus Messiah.”

Of course, the Book of Mormonion says that Jesus “shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem, which is the land of our forefathers.” The phrase “at Jerusalem” is used in other places in the BOM, and refers to Jerusalem itself. Was Jesus born “at Jerusalem?” No, Bethlehem. So important is this point that a prophecy of Christ’s birth (found in the Old Testament book of Micah) pinpoints that it would specifically be in Bethlehem.

God is not slack on points of prophecy. He was NOT born in or at Jerusalem. Joseph got lazy.

A real zinger includes the following:

The Book of Mormon claims that Nephi and his family left for Jerusalem to sail to the New World in the first year of the reign of King Zedekiah of Judah. Listen to 1st Nephi 1:4:

“For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah . . .”

But if Nephi and his family left the Holy Land in the first year of King Zedekiah’s reign, how would Nephi later be able to write: “Jeremiah have they cast into prison” (1st Nephi 7:14) when Jeremiah was not cast into prison until the tenth year of King Zedekiah’s reign (we find this fact in Jeremiah 32:1-2) nine full years after Nephi and his family left the Holy Land?

Disguises and Preaching

Then there is the Book of Mormonion’s disguise problem. In the book of Mosiah in the Onion, a prophet named Abinadi got a man named King Noah mad at him for preaching against “the sins of the people.” In the next chapter Abinadi, fearing King Noah would put him to deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. if he preached openly among the people, came back two years later in disguise. Mosiah 12:1 reads:

“And it came to pass that after the space of two years that Abinadi came among”

Discrepancies in the Book of Mormon

them in disguise, that they knew him not, and began to prophesy among them, saying: Thus has the Lord commanded me, saying – Abinadi, go and prophesy unto this my people. Why the disguise when you tell everyone your name?

Then there is a point we have already mentioned and that it that the Book of Mormon says that the Nephites continued to keep the Law of Moses after they reached the New World:

“And we did observe to keep the judgments, and the statutes, and the commandments of the Lord in all things according to the law of Moses . . .” (2nd Nephi 5:10)

But nowhere in Joseph’s “Onion” does it anywhere mention: Passover feasts, observance, or celebration. Sabbatical years. Jubilees. Purification rituals. Other feasts, or Circumcision.

Nephite Mistakes

Now listen carefully. Some Mormon defenders and apologists try and say that Mosiah 2:4 makes it clear that the Nephites did observe the Law of Moses because it says:

“they also took of the firstlings of their flocks, that they might offer sacrifices and burnt offerings according to the law of Moses.”

Problem?

Under the law of Moses, the firstling of every flock was considered as already belonging to God, and therefore could ONLY be offered as a peace offering, but never a burned sacrifice. Major faux pau Senior Smith.

Another embarrassing mistake in the BOMB was that the Nephite people were so impressed with a character named King Nephi that a decree came forward that all future kings would be called after his name:

Jacob 1:1 reads:

“Wherefore the people were desirous to retain in remembrance his name. And whoso should reign in his stead were called by the people, second Nephi, third Nephi and so forth, according to the reigns of the kings, and thus they were called by the people . . .”

But the very next king was called Mosiah (Omni 1:12) and no other king in the Onion was ever called Nephi.

The Brother of Jared's Revelation

Then we have the Brother of Jared mistake found in Ether 3:15. In this passage God says to the Brother of Jared:

“Never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created . . .”

But Joseph’s Doctrine and Covenants (Section 107:54) has Joseph say about Adam:

“And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam. . . .”

Ut – oh . . . Joseph made another boo-boo (stop staring at me Swan!)

Then there is the word, Adieu, a French word, used in the Book, (Jacob 7:27).

Now, Mormon defenders say that as a translator, it was permissible for Joseph to use this foreign word in his book because it seemed to fit better than any other word.

I would agree with this if Joseph was actually translating, you know, looking at plates and translating the characters into readable print.

But remember, witnesses tell us the Book of Mormon was created by God putting writing in front of Joseph’s eyes while his face was buried in a hat staring at his seer stone.

If this is the case, then God Himself, through this word in to the mix. I soop ose theeese eees possibleyah . . . (and that God wears a beret?)

The Jaradite Barges

Finally, let’s look at one of the biggest farces in the entire book. This accounting alone makes you wonder how anyone could read this thing and believe it is literal history.

What am I speaking about?

The Jaradite Barges.

The Book of Mormon claims that, around the time God confounded the language of the tower of Bawbel (by the way, that’s how its pronounced in Hebrew – I checked) He told the brother of Jared (whom Joseph Smith said was named Mahonri Moriancumer) . . . anyway God told him to build eight barges that would sail across the Pacific Ocean to the Americas.

This is how the Onion describes them:

“they were small, and they were light upon the water, even unto the likeness of a fowl upon the water . . . they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish . . . and the ends were peaked . . . and the length thereof was the length of a tree.” (Ether 2:16-17)

Got that glorious description?

Then the Book of Mormon says a “furious wind” (Ether 6:5) blows these barges to the Americas, from the Old World in 344 days (Ether 6:11).

If that “furious wind” blew the barges at a speed of only three knots (which is walking speed) they would have gone around the WORLD in 344 days.

So why only so far as the Americas?

We can’t say because they were heavy because the Onion itself says they were “light,

Ether's Barges and Divine Guidance

Like a fowl floating upon the water. But what makes this story even more ridiculous is that these barges acted like submarines at times, and that in describing how to build them, the Lord forgot about lighting them or providing a source of oxygen. So Mahonri Moriancumer says to the Lord in Ether 2:19:

“O Lord, in them there is no light . . . in them we cannot breathe.”

So the Lord provides glowing stones or rocks to provide the Jaredites light, and then authorizes a change in code for safe barge building and allows them to put a hole in the top of each barge for air, and, according to Ether 2:20, he also decided to have them put a hole in the bottom!

Mahonri Moriancumer's Construction Challenges

Light like unto a fowl. Tall as a tree. Animal skins covering a frame. Pushed by the wind. Man and animals sealed up inside. Glowing rocks for interior light. A hole in the top and a hole in the bottom.

Mahonri Moriancumer? Can I stop? Please. Can we just call it a year and expect these people to give it up?

Let’s open up the phone lines:
(801) 973-TV20
(801) 973-8820

Turn down our television sets please. LDS callers preferred. First time callers please.

Special Offers and Listener Responses

Alright, We have a summer special going on right now – five Alathea Products valued at over one hundred Bucks – for fifty. And now, now, we’ve added an extra-incentive to take advantage of Alathea Ministry products – with ANY purchase – books, DVDs, CDs, you, yes YOU will also receive your very own . . . Joseph’s Myth bumper sticker!

That’s right folks, they’re in stock. Now, we know many people would be reticent to attach this to their own vehicle, but maybe you can do something else with them. Use your imagination – just don’t break the law. Anyway, Joseph’s Myth bumper stickers – now available at www.hotm.tv

Steve C writes:
IF JOSEPH SMITH WAS A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD AND KNEW THAT THE NAME OF "JESUS CHRIST” HAD TO BE IN THE NAME OF GOD'S TRUE RESTORED CHURCH, WHY DID HE ORIGINALLY CALL HIS CHURCH THE "CHURCH OF CHRIST"–OMITTING THE NAME "JESUS?"AND IF HE REALIZED THAT HE HAD MADE A MISTAKE, WHY DID HE CHANGE THE NAME TO THE "CHURCH OF GOD"–OMITTING THE NAME "JESUS CHRIST?"AND IF HE REALIZED THAT THAT TOO WAS WRONG, WHY DID HE CHANGE THE NAME TO THE "CHURCH OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS"–AGAIN OMITTING THE NAME JESUS CHRIST?" ONLY ON THE FOURTH GO AROUND DID HE FINALLY GET IT CORRECT.WHY–IF HE WAS A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD?

STUPID QUESTION: My Mother says that "even if the LDS church isn't true she wouldn't leave; they teach morality, love, and compassion. How can a just God hold that against me." FYI: Mom and Dad sold their home to finance their mission. Returned to live in my brother's basement. Weekly activities are Temple, Church, Doctor, and Smith's (Grocery). I am so angry, Shawn. I intend on having my name removed as soon as my records arrive. (I moved so my elder brother would not be the Bishop to physically deal with it): Just provide a simple game plan – I am so weak – Yesterday I came across Richard Packman's site – Reading way too much – Luckily my LDS training kicked in and I clicked out, – I am so unhappy.

Mark E

Hey Shawn my name is Dylan I'm sixteen almost seventeen now. I've been watching your show since it started in 2006 and it has helped me find the truth. I was raised and baptized in the LDS church. Even though my family stopped going to the church about a year after I was baptized they still taught me its beliefs. Inside I was always at war with myself and I broke down went to the lord and asked him to show me the truth. So I found your show and everything you talked about I would look up for myself and it led me to the truth. I was still going through a hard time and I rejected the Lord for a couple years until earlier this year I saw your interview on YouTube with Mormon Stories. That's when I looked at myself and broke down went to the Lord asked him to come into my heart, to take over my life and he has! I was born again I knew I was saved because of what Christ did for us on the cross! I know that when I prayed for truth he led me to your show. You're a huge inspiration

Letters and Responses on Faith

to me I can't thank you enough for what you do! You have made a big impact on my life! Now I'm planning on going to the Calvary Chapel here in Murray and I'm also seeing a change in my Mom now that I talk to her about being born again. I'm also going to be buying your book Mormonism: A to Z later today can't wait to read it. Again thank you so much Shawn I hope to meet you someday maybe at one of your events. God bless!

Scott writes:

Many Catholics probably do pray to Mary but praying to Mary is NOT part of Catholic doctrine. Asking Mary (or a friend) to pray for us IS part of the Catholic religion. Many Catholics don't even know Catholic doctrine, they're like Mormons in that way…

Navigating Interfaith Marriage and Beliefs

Shawn, I have recently stumbled onto your show. I love what you're doing. My name is Mike and I have been married to a Mormon for 20 years this month. I was raised Baptist and accepted the Lord when I was 6 years old. My wife and I have 5 great kids, one of which was saved last year! I was back-slidden for many years but have re-dedicated my life to the Lord recently.

While being married to my wife has been my greatest sense of joy, it has also been the greatest sense of pain. I have studied Mormonism for 22 years, and know all of the apologetics. None of it works on my wife. She follows that religion with all of her heart. Nothing short of a miracle from God will change her mind and heart. Since you came out of Mormonism, what is your advice for me and what I can do to reach my wife?

Thank you for your time, Your brother in the Lord, Mike

Discussions on Faith and the Bible

I recently heard some really disturbing news. (Story of Connor’s Mom)

FIRST EMAIL

Shawn

Just listened to your podcast on Mormon Stories. Would love to hear how you can swallow the Bible but you can't swallow Mormonism? You don't have issue with: Creation, World Flood…well the entire old testament? I don't mean to be negative, just have recently left the mormon church and it was due to my study of the old testament, not the normal. Anyway, I hope this makes it to you and would love to chat. Thanks Brad

RESPONSE

Hey Brad. Forgive me for just responding to this – To answer briefly, to even TRY to compare Mormonism to Biblical Christianity is a complete joke. The Bible is a historical book – archaeologically, genetically, linguistically proven over thousands of years. The Dead Sea Scrolls, hundreds of prophecies. It stands on its own as a reliable book, with something like 99% inerrancy. Even non-believing scholars will tell you this. While there is a degree of faith that is integral, God has provided us with AMPLE evidence of His Word. Look into it, brother.

Shawn

BRAD WROTE BACK

“Please provide any evidence to your ridiculous claims!”

Okay, first of all Brad’s points is that some of the stories in the Bible are as far-fetched as some of the claims of the BOM. But he ignores the fact that the Bible and it’s accounts are in fact based in a real history or a real people. This is why to compare them is to compare apples and oranges.

“The first human on earth 7,000ish years ago (Adam) completely not supported scientifically! Actually disproven 100%. There are huge civilizations of humans 10,000 to 15,000 years ago. How was Adam the first dude???”

Listen – we have a biblical account.

• It is not exhaustive by any means.
• It is an account for humanity relative to God working in and through humanity.
• The creation account takes up only a few verses and is not exhaustive.
• The Garden of Eden was limited in size – what was going on outside of it we have no idea.
• Nor do we know how long they were actually in this garden – maybe 100 trillion years.

Beliefs About Creation

Adam was created with built-in age, wasn’t he? Couldn’t God build this world with “built-in” age too – for fossil fuels, etc? We have no idea. The point is the first four words – “in the beginning God.” There are those who believe these words and those who don’t. I do.

Scientific Perspectives on the Flood

“The flood… a laughably story completely disproven by science! The genetic diversity of the planet makes it impossible for the human race to have started with a few people 5,000 years ago with Noah. The disbursement and genetic diversity of the animal life also disproves the story 100%.”

Completely disproven by science? What? I think there’s just as much evidence of a flood as supposed evidence to disprove it. And I would submit the flood only covered the area of the world where human beings were – in other words, it was in a limited area. But I may be wrong.

Challenges with Animal Diversity

Regarding the flood and the animals, Brad adds:

“Let's not even mention the size issues with the known animal life on earth… LOL makes the story, well… Just that. A story!

Brad concludes: As you can see I have read “real science data” on the matter and you need to stop reading the same old book that has been the cause of more war, death, bloodshed, and virgin harvesting than any other book in the history of the known world. The bible is a joke and "if" there is a God he probably would laugh at most of the bull crap stories in the book.

Oh, we have become so wise as a people haven’t we? Real science data, huh Brad? The facts and statistics of the Bible are so significant that your summation of them makes me embarrassed for you and people like you who summarize its contents like you have. You see and find, discover and believe according to the desires of your heart. Those who want to see clearly do – it’s a simple as that.

Other Emails