Exploring Faith in Contemporary Times

Opening Reflections

Live from the MOM SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where we are learning together how to walk the Christian walk in the age of fulfillment. And I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.

Show 9B Adoption Follow-Up February 25th 2020

Let’s have a word of prayer.

PRAYER

Upcoming Discussions and Events

Now listen – next Tuesday night, instead of following up on our topic from Monday Night (which is adultery) we have the pleasure of airing a really important follow-up interview with Angela Kelly who is an advocate in Utah for putting an end to polygamy. She has gone through some amazing stuff in her quest to open up the eyes of the world to this issue so tune in.

Also remember – coming up Friday April 3rd and Saturday April 4th we will be holding our first annual Sundays Best worldwide convention (face) And will have some really great presentations from people who love and seek God for you to enjoy. If you are in the Salt Lake City area at that time, come on by the HOTM studios and watch live as these presenters offer up why they think “Their Approach to the Faith is best.”

Who will be here? Denver Snuffer of the Restorationist Movement Lee Baker – former Mormon, former Christian now Jew Father Christopher Gray of the Roman Catholic Church Bob Burgenon an active Latter-Day Saint And myself, representing Subjective ChristianityA direct, personal relationship with God—free from institutional authority, guided by personal relationship, faith and agape love. in the age of fulfillment.

Attendance is free but space is limited. We only demand that everyone be consummately respectful of every view shared and of those who share them. Friday April 3rd and Saturday April 4th – we will let you know the times once we have set them.

Testimonials and Correspondences

Got this email from one Sarah B in southern California

Shawn, 

I have been meaning to email you. Don't worry, I have no hasty comments, questions, or concerns. I'm actually emailing to thank you. If you don't mind, I want to share a brief introduction to who I am.

My name is Sarah Brown and I am from Southern California. I was born and raised Mormon (not one anymore!). I had a ridiculous patriarchal blessing that directly told me to serve a mission. I did what I was told and left for the Mexico City MTC in August 2019. Well, I was sent to Texas Spanish speaking. Needless to say, I came home in November 2019. I met so many believers in Texas who asked me thought-provoking questions, directed me to the truth in the Bible, presented archeological accounts of Pearl of Great Price bullcrap. My boyfriend, a guy I converted in 2017, sent me emails containing articles, biblical references of Jesus being God in the flesh. He left the church while I was on my mission discovering the truth of Jesus Christ. I see how God changed us both at the same time from far away. Since November 2019, when the stake president released me, I have been free from Mormonism! My boyfriend and I have been listening to Heart of the Matter and CAMPUS for weeks! They have really helped us, especially me. When the stake president yelled at me for coming home early, I turned on HOTM and laughed. When I was confused over John 1:1, I listened to CAMPUS and opened my mind to learning. When my parents threatened to kick me out, I looked up utlm.org. Your honesty and diligence to teach truth found in the Bible have really, truly helped us. 

I know that people usually email to debate, dialogue, ask questions, or grievance. But I really want to simply THANK YOU. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for recognizing a need and filling it with the Gospel! You have 2 people here in California listening to your podcasts weekly! 

God bless you & we pray for you! 

Sincerely,  Sarah B.

MY RESPONSE It warms the heart to know your efforts reach new people. Praise God and thank you Sarah for your email.

Viewer Reactions

Speaking of emails . . .

We have had some passionate responses to the abortion show, as expected, and let me pass some of them on to you tonight.

Dear Pastor McCraney:??I just happened to catch your recent programs on abortion. I've personally been politically "conservative" in my life, and have been (and am currently) considerably more "liberal." Still, I don't generally engage people on this issue. This is in large part the result of having once raised my "opinion" on the subject to my mother and sister. They snapped at me, letting me know that, not being a woman, I didn't have any business weighing in. I didn't know, and never would know, they said,

Examining Perspectives on Abortion

just what a woman going through a pregnancy was dealing with.??And, in terms of coming to any final conclusion, I have accepted that admonishment in the years since.??But as you continue tackling this issue from the perspective of believers in Christ–which I am sure you will–I do have some thoughts that ought, I think, to be regarded as part of the discussion.

For starters, statistically, one women in four will have an abortion during her lifetimes. Considering this, we are certainly obliged to ask the question of whether it is actually appropriate to suggest that one quarter of all women are "murderers." (No answer is implied here, but I do think this real-world fact needs to be taken into account when the matter is discussed.)??And a central claim of those asserting the "pro-life" position that merits deeper attention is that life (meaning full human personhood–hence worthy of full protection under the law) "begins at conception." At that moment, a genetically unique new "individual" (unless it splits and becomes identical twins) has, they insist, come into existence.

Biological Considerations

But let's look at what actually happens here. Should the fertilized egg reach the uterus, and implant in its wall, a viable pregnancy results. If it doesn't, it's flushed from the woman's body–unbeknownst to her or anybody else. And immediately following the implantation of a fertilized egg, the uterine wall changes, rejecting any other implantations. Any second or third fertilized egg that gets there (unless one hits roughly simultaneously with the first–resulting in non-identical twins) gets flushed.

Some estimates of the percentage of embryos that do not implant are as high as 50%, but even if this number is too high, the low-end estimate is one-third. In short–and this point is not meant to be glib–this makes God (the author of human biology) the greatest abortionist in the world.??In fact, if a couple–let us presume them to be a married, pro-life Christian couple hoping to make a baby–engages is unprotected sex more than once in a month, they are simply increasing the chance of creating embryos that will leave the woman's body and never result in a pregnancy.

Societal Questions

In short, whatever we decide, societally, to do about "abortions," any assertion that starts with the "life begins at conception" argument impugns not only all married couples seeking to have children who engage in "too much" sex, but also God himself.??For your consideration.??Sincerely,?Bob H

MY RESPONSE??

FROM JACOB

Hi Shawn, I just watched your video on abortion. First I have to say you’re brave for covering such a topic. Having said that, I’m sorry, but the logic you used makes absolutely no sense, unless you’re a complete and total anarchist.

By the logic that you used to say that we shouldn’t make laws about abortion, then we also should not make laws against child abuse or murder! The reason we make those laws against child abuse and murder is to prevent people from harming other people and interfering with their basic rights. Do you really think governments should remove those laws against murder? Your logic used in the show gave that impression, but I suspect you don’t really think that way.

The same way that laws protect an adults life, then they should protect an unborn baby’s life too.??The reason that many religious figures are taking political stances against abortion, but not saying anything about child abuse or murder (as you pointed out in your show), is because we already have laws to help prevent those things!

Shawn, by using the logic that “if God doesn’t stop us from doing it then we shouldn’t make laws against it” then by the same token you’d want to repeal laws against murder. Is that really what you're saying? If not, then your argument makes no sense.

I personally think that both the unborn babies and mothers lives should be protected under the law. I also think that if we can tell the unborn babies heart is beating, then we know they’re alive and they should be given just as much protection under the law as you and I have. I understand laws might have to get complex to cover things like ectopic pregnancies where the mothers life is threatened, but that is an unusual circumstance and both lives should be taken in consideration under the law.

Legal Protections

Man’s laws are made to protect people from harming each other, and they should continue to do so even in the womb. At least that is my take.

Regards, Jacob

MY RESPONSE

Appreciate your take brother. The bottom line point i am trying to make is abortion is a symptom, not

Understanding Christian Responsibilities

the problem..As Christians we know the problem and as Christians we ought to spend our time and resources on that, not on symptoms. And this is my take. Let love reign along the way.

Jacob's Perspective

JACOB’S REPLY

Thanks for the response Shawn. I think agree with the principle, but not the application of what you're saying. Was Jesus parable about the good samaritan not entirely about taking care of our neighbors symptoms? Jesus very much taught us to take care of the symptoms of others.

"35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[f] you did it to me.’" Mathew 25:35-40

Taking care of our neighbors symptoms is a very valid thing for all Christians to do, and VERY much taught by Jesus in the Bible! If we as Christians are supposed to feed our hungry neighbor, and give him clothes when he is naked, then how are we also not supposed to protect him when his life is being threatened?

The child in a mothers womb is our neighbor, and we should offer the child just as much protection as we offer under man's law for our own life. That seems VERY Christian to me.

"Love your neighbor as yourself." Mark 12:31

I think that the protection of human life is a VERY valid use of Christian time and resources. Can you really say that we should care for others as the bible teaches ( https://www.openbible.info/topics/caring_for_others ), but not include the protection of life from someone who cannot defend them self?

Regards, Jacob

Responses and Reflections

MY RESPONSE

Your arguments are fine – have at them – but that is all they are, arguments. I learned from the Amish that we can extrapolate any message we want out of the Bible; any – as you have done with the Good Samaritan – which i see as a stretch. Simply put, and I think you know this, I disagree with you and whatever you throw my way. It’s not out of any disrespect, I just know in advance the proofs and i find the all wanting in light of my understanding. I hope this helps. Go as you are led. I cannot refute your personal choices. I only resist principles that undergird such.

Shawn

CATHIE WROTE

Shawn my step daughter who lived in Seattle Washington at age 16 (she is now 49), got pregnant, she told her mother and her mother forced her to have an abortion. She wanted to have her baby, but her mother wouldn’t hear of it! Shawn I watcher her spiral down in her life to drugs, prostitution, and to being homeless. It breaks my heart. She has had two bouts of breast cancer. Has lost her teeth from drugs, she steals to get by. Her mother has abandoned her. Her father has died. She was raised LDS. No one can reach her and I have no idea where she is. She told me years ago when she was able to move back to Utah, that being forced to have an abortion broke her. She has never been able to get over it and condemns herself. I wonder how her life might have been if she had been able to have her baby. Only God knows. It’s just so sad. My daughter who has been a midwife in California for 15 years said it does something painful mentally and emotionally to a woman when life goes out of her through miscarriage or abortion. God bless women who suffer from there loss in this area. Thank you for openly talking about these topics and for the openness. It’s long over due. I Love transparency. It has set me free. God bless you as you serve God based on love.

MY RESPONSE

JIM R WROTE

Hey Shawn, I’ve been listening to you for 3-4 yrs and would have to say that I have thoroughly changed many of my views. I love your style of teaching and how you dive into the Scriptures to show how you have arrived at your stance. You, by far are the

Abortion and Biblical Perspectives

greatest biblical teacher that I have ever listened to or watched.??I have really debated in my own head, for days as to if it would even be worthwhile to approach you on the abortion topic. I have watched hundreds of hours of your teachings and do not recall ever seeing anything like what I saw when I watched the episode on abortion. ??The entire episode was your emotions, anger and opinion. I saw absolutely nothing that was fact based, which is unlike you. I would have to say that I honestly have no idea what you really believe. If you found out today that one of your grandchildren were being abused, would your opinion be, oh well, God let it happen? That seems to be your views.? Do you believe that we should do nothing about the millions of abused, starving children in this world because “god lets it happen “? Should all of our prisons be emptied??It’s just “fanatics or zealots “ (two of your favorite things to call people who have the audacity to think differently than you) that want to put these people behind bars. I’m sure all of these violent criminals have very valid reasons for their actions.?sounds like a fantastic idea to me. Just think of the amount of money we could save in this country. We have no need for any police, military, jails prosecutors…??This episode was way beneath you!?

A Response to Criticism

MY RESPONSE

I’m glad it struck a nerve brother. The topic is not single sided. My job on these shows is to challenge prejudices we all maintain and to stir God loving people to look at their own and see the holes. I made my personal opinions very clear on the act of abortion, but my opinions are irrelevant to the situation at hand. So I look to Gods solution – which are very clear: Love (in whatever form.that takes, it must be done in love.) Thanks for watching my brother. Like many things I do they take some time to be understood.

But I want to say something more to Jim’s email.

Abortion in the Biblical Context

Complexities and Challenges

 JIM WROTE
I have watched hundreds of hours of your teachings and do not recall ever seeing anything like what I saw when I watched the episode on abortion. There was a reason for this my brother. The topic of abortion is NOT readily answered in the Bible – especially when we admit that to try to use the Bible to answer it we have to:
• Go to the Old Testament
• Go to the Old Testament and extrapolate and impute our prejudices into the verses
• That Jesus nor his apostles addressed it
• And that the closest passages we have that address it say that the killing of an inutero baby should be met with a fine.

The subject is super volatile and so to throw information at it would be a waste of time. So, I resorted to throwing Jesus and what He did at it. Jim continues, saying
The entire episode was your emotions, anger and opinion. I saw absolutely nothing that was fact based, which is unlike you. I would have to say that I honestly have no idea what you really believe. I don’t think the show had a lot of my emotions in it to tell you the truth – perhaps I’m wrong. And I’ve explained why I did not go down the fact road – because I know where it leads.

But I did make it plain, in terms of my views on abortion that I find it horrible for the baby, horrible for the mom, and horrible for the family. That said, however, I pointed out that there are a lot of horrible atrocities that are allowed on this earth and therefore the focus ought to be on the only solution to them – Jesus.

Jim asks:
If you found out today that one of your grandchildren were being abused, would your opinion be, oh well, God let it happen?
That seems to be your views.? I think in the end my answer will surprise you brother – but yes, that would be part of my response – because he would have. It does not mean that God wants such a thing to happen, but the freedom he gives to those who do the abusing is paramount to him and his ways – he didn’t stop cain from slaying abel and he doesn’t stop the pains all of us face in this world. Are there laws to punish perpetrators. There are. But those are

Christianity and Social Engagement

OUTSIDE of the Good News and what God’s solution is for the pain in this world. This is my point Jim – Christianity is not political. Christianity is not a police force. Christianity is not law making. Christianity is the belief that God sent His Son who lived, died, resurrected and is there for all who want Him in their lives. When Christianity steps in and tries to navigate and police and enforce its laws on the world, Christianity loses. This is always the case. And this is what I am saying.

Misconceptions About Christian Duty

JIM ADDS Do you believe that we should do nothing about the millions of abused, starving children in this world because “god lets it happen?” Of course I think all people should reach out to starving children. And I think that starving children and the care of them ought to be higher on our priority list than attacking abortion.

“Should all of our prisons be emptied?” I am not against the Law, brother. I am against Christians using Jesus to impose or create laws on this earth.

And he adds It’s just “fanatics or zealots” (two of your favorite things to call people who have the audacity to think differently than you) that want to put these people behind bars.

This is unfair in so many ways, Jim. I call people fanatics and zealots who use God without authority to justify radical responses against social ills. Like the guys who flew the planes into the pentagon and world trade centers – in the name of God they did something fanatical for God.

I do not refer to people who disagree with me as fanatics or zealots if they refrain from speaking for God in their arguments.

The Role of Christian Anarchism

And at this point, Jim slips down a slope of sarcasm about the world going lawless. I am NOT a secular anarchist. I am a Christian anarchist and I go by what Jesus did in His life, and what His apostles did in their lives. And they were not political nor did they resist social ills or evils.

Jesus’ Kingdom, as he stated to Pilate, is not of this world. This world is NOT interested in His kingdom. And so our duty, as sons and daughters of the King, is to perpetuate the Kingdom and the King, neither of which are of THIS world.

Jim ends the email with This episode was way beneath you! And this comment supports my approach to the topic in the first place. It seems that brother Jim would have really appreciated my doing a show that joined the opponents of abortion – that would have made him happy and he would have believed me to be heroic.

But then all those people who have either had abortions or are pro-choice would have sent in their emails to say that my stance was beneath me too. This is the problem with believers taking sides on such things and not just choosing to let our faith amount to the fruits of the Spirit for all people involved, trusting that in this approach God will make himself known.

Okay, well last night we had a short show about adoption. It was short because who has much to say about that practice as Christians, right?

Here are the comments from last night's show:

Hey, remember, next week, on Monday night we are going to cover adultery but on Tuesday, instead of answering your emails and calls about that topic we are going to air a follow-up interview with Angela Kelly and polygamy.

You might wonder – why would I have a guest who fights polygamy on the show – that is an ill of the world just like abortion, right? When it comes to our guests I will have ANYONE on the show – because it is in and through them that we learn to see and think as believers – so if there is someone who wants to come on the show and talk about abortion, I welcome them – no matter their views.

So tune in Monday night when we talk about adultery and Tuesday night where we talk about polygamy with Angela Kelly, here on HOTM!