Faith without religion.
The Deification of Jesus: Exploring Acts 2 with Shawn and Delaney
Trinity, Jesus, Mormonism
In a recent discussion on Acts chapter 2, Shawn and Delaney delved into the complexities of Peter’s address to the Israelites, focusing on the nature of Jesus and the implications for Trinitarian beliefs. Peter’s description of Jesus as “a man accredited by God” sparked a conversation about the human and divine aspects of Jesus, challenging traditional Trinitarian views by emphasizing Jesus’ humanity and God’s work through him. This perspective suggests that Jesus was a man through whom God performed miracles, rather than being God himself in a Trinitarian sense.
The discussion also touched on the role of King David in biblical prophecy, with Peter using David’s words to highlight Jesus as the true King who overcame death. This interpretation challenges the Israelites’ understanding of David’s prophecy, suggesting that it pointed to Jesus rather than David himself.
Shawn and Delaney further explored the concept of Jesus’ position at the right hand of God, as mentioned in the scriptures, and the implications of this for understanding the nature of God and Jesus’ role in the divine plan. They discussed the idea that Jesus’ time at the right hand of God was temporary, leading to questions about the nature of God’s timeline and the eventual fulfillment of Jesus’ mission.
The conversation also ventured into the realm of Mormonism and its attempts to restore Christianity, comparing it to traditional Christian practices. Shawn highlighted the influence of Masonic principles in Mormonism, emphasizing its focus on human achievement and perfection, which he views as a diabolical counterfeit of true spiritual fulfillment.
Overall, the discussion provided a thought-provoking examination of biblical texts, challenging traditional interpretations and encouraging a deeper understanding of the relationship between God, Jesus, and humanity.
Podcast Transcript:
all right continuing Acts chapter
2 so we very much just went through
Peter the first part of Peter addressing
the crowd okay and now he says let’s
just keep reading it fellow Israelites
listen to this Jesus of Nazareth was a
man accredited by God to you by Miracles
wonders and signs which guarded among
you through him as you know as you
yourselves know okay want to stop and
just point out something that
evangelicals will get really offended by
but I want you to think about this
Delaney Peter who was walked with him
seen Miracles seen him rais seen him
rise all of it Peter describes Jesus as
what a man a man yeah who God sent yeah
yeah and it’s clear as day he could have
said and he re he calls him Jesus of
Nazareth he shows that the manhood of
him was what we need to focus on because
if it’s the god part of him then all
you’re doing is giving glory to God
because it’s one God yeah you get that
the whole this whole thing I it was like
the one thing I noted was that Peter
literally talks to the crowd like
remember that guy he’s a guy and God did
all this stuff through him yes yeah that
destroys
trinitarianism yeah because why though
they think that Jesus himself
was God which we which we agree with
yeah what but the problem is is in
persons okay okay that’s trinitarian
when you think Trinity think persons
yeah okay and because men created this
they say God is not the father who sent
his son God is three persons and when
they do that they make Jesus God the son
mhm that is something Peter and Paul
will not do in all of their writings
they don’t recognize the Trinity yeah
they recognize as God filling the man
who allowed him to overcome him and then
became God in flesh that saves us but
they try to make it persons now the wind
that justf fell that’s a person too to a
trinitarian that’s a separate person
different than Jesus different than God
the father and then those three men and
that is where they to the scripture I
think Peter would have clearly said and
God the son came down from above never
yeah never
yeah he says Jesus of Nazareth was a man
accredited by God come on come on to you
by Miracles accredited by God to you by
Miracles which God did among you through
him right as you yourselves know always
honor to God through Jesus that’s how
you do it this man was handed over to
you by God’s deliberate plan and forn
knowledge and you with the help of
wicked men put him to death by nailing
him to the Cross but God raised him from
the dead freeing him from the agony of
death because it was impossible for
death to keep its hold on him yeah the
man yeah and God freed him from the dead
yeah the only that’s confusing with
trinitarian talk is really the way that
Jesus refers to himself cuz he just gets
like real but everything he says is is
like really lofty yeah sort of you know
and he says I don’t say anything of
myself yeah if I did I’d be talking
about what we did with kickball in
Galilee as a kid yeah he only says what
his father God tells him to say okay
yeah like which doesn’t mean that’s all
he is no it means it’s like you talking
about what God is all the time and just
not yourself yeah it doesn’t mean that’s
me I’m a man yeah yeah okay that’s
pretty crazy yeah and so he just to
remember from the last episode he just
got finished telling people what the
spirit is doing and how to how this is
going to transpire over the
next last
days and how they can be saved from it
and it’s by calling on the name of the
Lord and this is the Lord the Lord is
this man who God worked through that we
put to death or you put to
death um and he says David said about
him and like quotes
David and who’s sorry but who’s David so
that’s going back to the Old Testament
and um the nation of Israel wanted a
king so they elected Saul he’s the first
king of of Israel and then but God
wanted David MH and so David is a
historical Old Testament figure that was
the king of Israel he was their material
physical King okay and they loved David
okay because he killed Goliath and he
had all these other great things and he
was a great king Who Loved God but so
what Peter is doing there is saying you
received uh David as your king and you
constantly are talking about King David
well this is the real King okay yeah and
this is what David said about and when
the Old King that you hold up is so
great cites a prophecy about the king to
come you focused on the wrong King you
got a real one here that you killed is
what Peter’s saying to
him okay and David what David said was
that he the point that Peter is trying
to make is that David said he
escaped death but David died yeah like
that’s that’s what he’s trying to say
David said I saw the Lord he uh because
you will not abandon me to the realm of
the Dead you will you will not let your
Holy One see Decay and he’s like fellow
Israelites I’ll tell you confidently
that P David died and was buried and his
tomb is here to this day so that’s not
what he was saying he was referring to
the Lord defeating death right who would
whose body would not Decay so what he’s
saying is you thought David was talking
about himself he was prophesying of this
one because he’s saying David’s still
over there rotting there’s his grave
yeah this one rose how did people how
did people like reconcile that if they
thought David was talking about himself
do you know like in that time they
probably had all kinds of mystical
thoughts about him being a spirit that
went to heaven and or he’s not there and
Peter’s just clarifying it that he was a
picture in type of the king to come okay
yeah good question that’s not easy stuff
to read through right there it’s it’s
kind of difficult if you don’t know the
history well you’re helping me a lot
um okay but he was a prophet knew God
had promised him the oath that he would
Place one of his Descendants on the
throne that’s Jesus okay yeah David was
promised let me tell you something I’m
God and and you will always have a king
on the throne that you’re sitting on
okay yeah it’s a prophecy and Jesus is
from the line of David okay wow
um which is what the genealogies are at
the beginning of Matthew and Luke to
prove him and his kingly line to both
Abraham and David wow
yeah
okay um
seeing seeing what was to come he spoke
of the resurrection of the Messiah that
he was not abandoned to the realm of the
dead nor did his body Decay God had
raised Jesus to life we all Witnesses of
it exalted to the right hand of God he
has received from the Father the
promised Holy Spirit has poured out what
you now see and hear for David did not
Ascend to Heaven yet he said the Lord
said to my Lord sit in my right hand
until I make your enemies foot SLE for
your feet showing a prophecy was all
about Jesus okay now I just got to rock
your world for a minute but it’s going
to help you in your overall
understanding what changed my view as
your dad reading the scripture was I was
teaching through the book of Hebrews and
I read the
the phrase that said and Jesus or
whoever God Yeshua will be at the right
hand of the father
until and when it said until I said wait
a second I thought Jesus you know he was
always at the right hand of the father
and that’s what he’s saying he says he’s
ascended to the right hand of the father
but the scripture talks about a time
when he won’t be there anymore he’ll
leave that and when that was said I knew
we there’s different age we’re talking
about here so when Christian pastors are
saying Jesus is at the right hand of the
father he’s making intercession for you
and God is angry at your sin and he’ll
say no I’m covered it’s all fairy tale
fairy tale because he left the right
hand of the father and he turned all of
everything back to the father’s hand is
what scripture says so that God is all
in all is what the scripture says that’s
a quote so that God is all in all okay
he turned it back to God turned it back
to his father all of it wow that’s what
Jesus the man did as having overcome
everything in our flesh so when you see
that you can also see how the Trinity is
not working because the Trinity keeps
them all in the same place but this is
not the same he’s not there forever he’s
only there until this stuff that we’re
reading about is done and fixed does
that make sense or is it too much so far
no it makes sense um
so Peter’s speaking of he went up and
he’s at the right hand of the father
that was true then that was true yeah
it’s like David and Peter didn’t know
the until part when does Jesus say
until uh the book of Hebrews says it and
then also it it said Paul says it in
First Corinthians that he will be at the
right hand
until God has put everything under his
feet and when God has put everything
under his feet he too will be put under
will put himself under God so that God
will be all in all is what it says in 1
Corinthians 15 so we have a we have
Jesus next to the father and then we
have it only until God puts everything
under his feet which is the law the
prophets all he came to do from the Old
Testament and then Jesus goes away the
question is where does he go I suggest
he sits on the throne and is God I
suggest that the fullness of God is in
that incarnate deified Body of Christ
but there’s nothing to suggest that you
just why why do you say that because the
Book of Revelation John sees into the
heavens after everything’s done and
there’s called the throne room and
there’s only one on
it God this one has a hand that can take
things what yeah and so when you do that
I I say suddenly God has become
anthropomorphic through the deified body
of his son to see him as to see his
father he has taken it so now you start
to see why Jesus is important you know
he is he is a footnote and but because
we see God as being the separate and he
was when Jesus was incarnate but now God
has deified this man and now this I
think now that’s me I think he’s the one
on the throne if he’s not and he took
his Corporal body so Grady doesn’t
believe in the Corporal body he thinks
he took his body and just dissolved it
and he’s Jesus’s spirit with the father
and it’s just one but because he has
hands and John saw it figurative I
wonder about that that you think there’s
a body up there I wonder yeah but there
aren’t other bodies there are but none
of them are sitting on the throne that’s
the point other bodies are up there yeah
there’s bodies of animal there’s bodies
of angels there’s bodies of the Saints
who have been martyred in John’s Vision
but there’s one on the throne I
understand I just didn’t know there were
other bodies up there I don’t like that
there’s bodies well it’s spiritual
remember he’s using he’s using imagery
to describe something he’s seing in the
spirit so because he says bodies and
Thrones doesn’t mean that’s what they
are he’s using imagery for us to
understand what he saw okay so it could
so there being a hand could be
completely figurative okay I see all
right and I I admit that yeah yeah no I
know you do I just trying to
understand okay and do you think that
Jesus on the throne has like absorbed
God or he’s replaced him and God’s
elsewhere no replacing it’s there’s no
God elsewhere it’s just God okay GE okay
yeah um whether it’s the body or not
it’s just God because this goes back to
the makeup of God and I think God is
perfect male and perfect female they
reunited in the one God uh in with
Christ having overcome everything what
that looks like I don’t know yeah yeah I
I hear that and I’m not making Jesus a
footnote just it’s like what comes first
for me to understand what Jesus does is
God yeah you’re dead on with it but but
that’s in the past like right now if
we’re just to understand the it is weird
that there’s like a timeline to God to
God there’s like a before and an after
of God’s like form yeah which kind of is
weird to me well you know and then we
have answers for that that we make up
God is outside the time space continuum
you know he we are seeing just one part
of the parade he sees the whole thing
beginning to end I think most of that’s
made up I think God has time and I think
he operates within time frames and we
say all that stuff because it makes it
convenient to answer questions we don’t
know yeah but I think there’s time
frames and he operates by them relative
to us and other things yeah I mean
clearly he works long like this whole
story is about time
yes
but how he works it’s hard to presume
how he works very hard but like it’s not
that he works off time but it’s not that
he doesn’t work off time either uses
what he wants yeah okay good stuff
um where did we end off okay
so exalted to the right hand of God for
David did not Ascend to Heaven yet he
said the Lord sit to my said my right
hand yeah okay so therefore let so after
all that Peter’s telling the
people therefore let all Israel be
assured of this God has made this Jesus
whom you crucified both Lord and Messiah
yeah and again another emphasis that God
made him right and the the the crazy
other thing about that is that um oh
wait a minute I got it God made this
Jesus
uh that the name Jesus means the
anointed one that’s what it means so he
was anointed by what by God that is what
the anointed one was so let’s get rid of
all the mystical baby Jesus having the
power to do come on you know he was a
man yeah was it you talking to someone
was talking about how
Jesus like maybe it was greedy that he
didn’t
sin and it’s like sin was like a really
specific term for something where it’s
like
he he did certain things he probably
like wasn’t this perfect guy even he
learned obedience yeah he was perfect in
terms of it seems to me like complete in
his devotion allegiance to God yeah yeah
but yeah maybe that’s did he stub his
toe yeah because he wasn’t listening to
Mom hey man
that’s a but that’s what we want to do
we want to deify him before he learned
the lessons right but he didn’t have a
heart that’s the thing to sin against
his father ever he made him the one on
the throne did he make mistakes the one
on the throne yeah maybe I think maybe
it was great you talking about it
because he was talking about or you
sorry that
idolatry and the whole thing with the
Old Testament was faith and love and not
having another always and that was what
Jesus was perfect in not crying or like
emotions or whatever like and we want to
make him an idol that uh even replaces
yahava his father and make him a man who
was God and all that and that’s not what
the scripture conveys it conveys a much
more naturalistic approach of God
working through this one but that one
was his son from the get-go that’s the
weird part yeah and he become like he’s
on the throne now so like it’s not that
he’s yeah he’s not Cho
liver but the timing of it it’s like not
that from his babyhood and before even
that you no crying he makes shut up oh
little town of Bethlehem yeah that’s not
the
song Silent Night Silent
Night
oh that’s so sacriligious no it’s
reality no myth makers yeah it’s another
thing about time how like
Jesus
Jesus’s um like
godliness had a timeline sort of and
like he has eras of being he’s learning
and then
he’s witnessing or what I don’t know and
he increased in the wisdom and stature
of man yeah it says yeah increased and
then he had an era of ministry and then
he had an era of being on the and then
he’s in heaven and then he’s on the
throne and then he’s yeah yeah at the
right hand right hand he’s on the throne
and is he on the throne we don’t know
and I don’t care yeah because I care
about the one God and I care about what
the one God did and but it does make me
appreciate the human
side of this man who felt what we feel
and still did what his father wanted him
to do that separates us from him in
miraculous ways yeah it makes sense the
there’s a lot of things that make sense
about like Mormon thinking when I think
about this stuff with like acquiring
things and the yeah and like power like
growing yeah after in the afterlife both
here and in the afterlife life in like
progression yeah it’s that’s where Smith
was not wrong in the concept yeah but
what he did was he said God told him
this and there’s a book that also
reveals it and I mean he he just he just
totally screwed with us but his thoughts
were correct as a as an aside I was just
talking to someone about
this the idea of fulfillment and they
were like so like the Mormon say
basically with but that’s my question is
they’re
saying I was saying either the point of
either it’s fulfilled or church is being
done really wrong and they’re like so
that’s where Mormons have it right where
they that’s what they are is they’ve
restored it to be correct yeah in ter is
that right
yeah like supposedly yeah the supposedly
yes absolutely and so that’s the
argument you make well if he hasn’t come
back who’s doing church as close to
right as possible it’s them yeah yeah
it’s absolutely them but they are all
doing it through their flesh okay and
law I I I just wasn’t sure if that like
no it’s definitely an argument and it’s
the one that we should be using against
evangelicals yeah because how we Crush
Mormonism the Latter Day Saints is to
prove that the latter days were then
yeah there’s
no Christians have are ridiculous
Christians offer nothing to the world
see and you can now you’re feeling my
passion for I come out of Mormonism I
see it’s a farce you make me believe
something that’s inferior yeah like
Christianity is just
like
Mormonism diet Mormonism diet it’s light
it doesn’t have any of the meat it
doesn’t have any of the Apostle at least
they can pretend at least they’re like
yeah they have some freaking yeah reason
to what they’re doing yes in certain way
except it’s all grounded in this looking
into a hat it’s all the myth Mythos but
here’s the other thing which is really
revelatory this is so good is that
Smith he and and this is proven by uh
history is he embarked not just to fix
religion Christianity and make it the
restored church he also did
simultaneously hand andan did it to fix
masonry and masonry is the operative
approach to making bad citizens better
and good citizens best it’s all based on
taking the man or the woman and
elevating them to higher and higher
performances and that’s what that’s what
that’s all about so he merged those two
and that’s why Mormonism is so effective
but masonry is a humanist approach it
doesn’t even care about God it cares
about what men do and their Fame and
their money so that’s why it’s
diabolical it’s a counterfeit of in
insane genius but it’s diabolical and
the end of it is death because they’re
not alive they are serving the dead law
and they think that they’re perfecting
their flesh so I’m going to this length
with you because we’ve never had these
conversations of the Mormon Christian
thing I’m helping you understand why
it’s does it do good on Earth sure but
it is such a diabolical farce yeah and
that stuff is what I spent all those
years discovering and man and you want
to go back into that it is deeply rooted
into esoterica the occult spiritualism
Egypt all of those dark Forces is there
the power behind that thing that’s why
you got Gollum as their damn Prophet
sorry guys Gollum names this book Heart
Of The
Matter sorry didn’t he just die no just
died who was the biggest Criminal on
Eartha sorry my gosh in my opinion I
just heard on the radio Ballard someone
died yeah Heart Of The Matter check it
out if you haven’t freaking heard of
it
um okay how long we go we’re at 25 I’m
I’m ranting no this is so good good
thank you um let’s do one more episode
yeah this is why acts two is so good
because there are nuggets in here that
destroy religion yeah I did not pick up
on most of it I have one question for
the next episode that was the only thing
I really picked up on so this is so
useful are we still recording yep
okay here we go ending
