Faith without religion.
The Most Excellent Way: Understanding the Body of Christ and the Conflict in the Middle East
spiritual gifts, body of Christ, nation of Israel
In this engaging discussion, Shawn and Delaney delve into First Corinthians chapter 12, exploring the spiritual gifts bestowed by the Holy Spirit. They emphasize the unity of these gifts, all originating from one Spirit, and discuss how these gifts are distributed among believers for the common good. Shawn shares his personal journey of seeking and developing these gifts, particularly wisdom and faith, and reflects on the idea that individuals can grow in these gifts through their relationship with God.
The conversation also touches on the cultural and historical context of the early church, highlighting the transition from paganism to Christianity and the challenges faced by early believers in understanding spiritual gifts. Shawn and Delaney discuss the concept of the body of Christ, emphasizing the importance of each member and the interconnectedness of believers. They explore the analogy of the body, where each part, no matter how seemingly insignificant, plays a crucial role in the overall function and health of the body.
The discussion then shifts to the broader context of religious history, examining the lineage of Abraham and the distinctions between the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael. They explore the complex relationships between Jews, Muslims, and Christians, and the historical and theological implications of these connections. Shawn and Delaney also address contemporary issues, such as the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, and the role of eschatology in shaping Christian perspectives on these matters.
Throughout the conversation, Shawn and Delaney emphasize the importance of love, humility, and unity among believers, advocating for a perspective that transcends cultural and religious divisions. They encourage listeners to seek understanding and to approach these complex topics with an open heart and mind, grounded in the teachings of Christ.
Podcast Transcript:
we are in First Corinthians chapter 12
this is part three we go through the
Bible Delaney and I and we just use the
the Bible to help us open us up to
topics because the whole show is I don’t
get the Bible so what is the Bible
teaching us as as and that’s what we’re
doing great thank
you
okay verse seven of chapter 12 of 1
Corinthians now to each one the
manifestation of the spirit is given for
the common good to one there is given
through a spirit a message of wisdom to
another message he goes through message
of uh
knowledge by means of The Same Spirit to
another Faith by means of The Same
Spirit to another gifts miraculous
Powers another distinguishing between
Spirits another different kind of
tongues still interpretation of tongues
all these are the work of one and the
same spirit and he distributes them to
each one just as he
determines um so first of all he needs
to clarify that it’s one spirit
because they are coming from like
paganism right maybe they’re giving some
U spiritual gifts assignment to
different Spirits this was kind of
they’re still trying to figure stuff out
okay so he emphasizes that it’s all the
same Spirit okay yeah um
and then these gifts today we’ve talked
about it vaguely but
like he names specific ones and then
later he names more specifically but
yeah and and when he names them this is
why I’m not a
cessationist uh secessionist
cessationist I don’t know what the word
is but I believe like you just read a
little bit of a laundry list and I
believe that as you pursue and seek Him
and grow in the Spirit these things are
given to you more and more and if you
have one or if you have none or if you
have seven of them that’s what you’re
given and I know that there are some you
just read that that uh I mean I know
that God has given me a semblance of
them in my life
yeah like so read them
again a message of wisdom Okay so I
think that’s you have that you get a
wisdom what’s wisdom it’s knowledge
applied so when you can take knowledge
of the spiritual things and apply them
that’s it does it come naturally I I
don’t know but through work and
searching I’ve sort of learned to
develop that
knowledge Faith healing mirac I don’t
have I don’t have the gift of healing
but and what was the other one you just
ulous Powers miraculous Powers I don’t
know about that but the knowledge and
the wisdom and the inner things yeah I
mean they come is it possible that like
before in that time he’s talking to them
and he says like each person gets a gift
and it makes a body but that was when
there was a body and there’s church and
stuff so is it possible that
individuals in communion with God kind
of develop all of them sure because he’s
gonna say covet the best gifts yeah he’s
gonna say Seek after all of them try to
get them yeah so you can like you can
acquire them and develop them the gift
of faith I hand to God I mocked Faith as
a LDS person I mocked it I I laughed at
it I said it’s stupid I hate it yeah I
remember saying it but when I entered
the school Ministry I started talking
seeking every day asking for faith faith
faith faith faith because I learned that
that’s all the only thing way to please
God as a human and he gives it wow yeah
um I I was wondering then
like because he’s talking to them and
because it they were so material then
are I wondered if those gifts were
culturally specific but it seems like
they’re more yeah like applicable like
universally would you say seems like it
healing and yeah I think I think they’re
more um they’re all spiritually based
because it’s coming from the spirit the
culture I think the gifts of the Spirit
or whatever the spirit transcends
culture like
tongues yeah I mean but that still has a
place in this world you could go to some
place okay and we’re going to talk about
tongues as it comes up because it’s a
discussion we should have but uh yeah
that that see I mean definitely at that
time and remember the Holy Spirit was
given in abundance this is what sist say
it was so powerful then because they had
to know uh by these signs and wonders
that’s the culture they came out of that
this is from God okay yeah and
then the that section starts with now to
each one the manifestation of the spirit
is given for the common good yeah
and that also felt like something
that is specific like does God work for
the common good now do you think I think
so yeah and but I think the common good
is for his Believers okay yeah and I
think it’s also for the world because
everybody
possesses some knowledge of God so the
common good at that
time was was brought about by the
manifestation of the spirit mhm which
revealed itself through
gift and the common good for them was
salvation or the common good was was
more faith trusts okay so that they
would be saved and they would have
strength to avoid all the traps and the
other things that were calling to them
to not believe okay um
okay and then the last thing is all of
these are the work of one and the same
spirit and he distributes them to each
one just as he determines yeah that’s
not implying that everyone had a gift
was it no it’s not just he’s
Distributing he’s Distributing yeah and
when it says he there he’s
Distributing many people will use that
as evidence that the spirit oh is a man
but you could say that’s God but we’re
going to come across passages where the
spirit is described as a he huh and he’s
not the spirit in the Greek is uh gender
neutral oh and in and the spirit in the
Old Testament is feminine so by
assigning he to it Concords with the
Trinity oh Father Son Holy Spirit he
individual yeah aren’t there other times
where they call it it no it does doesn’t
say it in the scripture but if you’re
going to read it rightly you’ll say it
it never says it says really no because
the translators wanted the spirit to be
a he so all the times it’s talking about
the spirit they put he in there oh my
gosh yeah and that’s an argument I have
against the Trinity yeah that’s a big
one but and there but there’s a reason
they do that and this is their
justification Jesus Likens the Holy
Spirit to what he calls the comfort
and in Greek that’s the paraclete and he
says but the paraclete and in that
illusion that example of the spirit it’s
masculine it’s the one time that he uses
an illustration of a
comforter and because that illustration
is masculine every other time the Holy
Spirit which is gender neutral is
assigned he wow yeah and it’s not a
sufficient uh it’s not a sufficient
proof no it’s an analogy it’s just an
analogy yeah but that’s how that’s how
they justify it
wow very bad justification
people so just as a body the one has
many parts but all its many parts form
one body so it is with Christ for we
were all baptized by one spirit so as to
form one body whether you or Gentile
slave or free and we were all given one
Spirit to drink
um I was struck by it saying we were all
baptized by one Spirit but that’s
meaning he’s just speaking to Believers
right yeah it’s not like is no at that
point it’s them okay do you have
anything to note there uh that the
baptism there is not is is the baptism
of the spirit not
water okay we were all baptized by one
Spirit yeah
okay because when Jesus came John said
what I’m not worthy to lra you or
whatever and but John described him is
coming to baptize with he goes I baptize
with water John says but the one who I’m
not even worthy to tie his shoe comes to
baptize with fire and the spirit that’s
the important baptism to have the water
one is not so that’s what I think we’re
and okay and the spirit you said we’ve
we went over this when it it like fell
upon them or whatever and that’s the was
the baptism that was the baptism for
those who were there okay
yeah but were they doing water baptisms
too yeah to these people okay and that
wasn’t irrelevant when John the Baptist
said that after Jesus came it was still
still practiced
yeah okay moving on um even so the body
is not made up of one part but of money
and the whole thing if the foot should
say because I’m not a
hand uh ears and eyes I love that
analogy though it’s so beautiful it’s
really awesome yeah it’s really smart
and I wish we would do that with each
other yeah I I mean personally I relate
to it like freaking architecture Works
off of those principles and Kinesiology
and like the world yeah like systems
but then with people
yeah but he continues on it says but in
fact God has placed the parts in the
body every one of them just as he wanted
them to be they were all one part where
would the body be as it is there are
many parts but one body
um my question was about the bride but
we talked a lot about that just like
what defines the
body but that was just one big analogy
right it was one big analogy now uh
people still call the body as existing
on the Earth today okay um and it gets a
little dicey because you have the bride
you have the body you have the church
you have the called out the elaia you
have all kinds of
imagery um are those all referring to
the same thing I think they’re all
referring to the same thing the bride
and the body the bride the church the
called out and the body okay they’re
talking about was the was all the same
okay because of fulfillment and him
taking the bride I don’t see us see
talking about each other as a body I see
uh uh the application being we are
either children of God or not okay and
we become children of God by faith okay
so it’s now a family of children and our
parents are Christ and his bride okay
yeah so yeah the in the next
section I’ll skip I’m skipping but it’s
like God has put the body together
giving greater honor to the parts that
locked it such an important line yeah
and so that there should be no division
in the body but that its parts should
have equal concern for each other so it
seems
like that’s obviously like a spiritual
thing yeah like
he that sorry he’s coming off of saying
like that I you know there are in real
life there are ways that we treat the
body parts differently and some you
cover up some you don’t whatever but God
puts it together so we we don’t do that
and So based on what you just said about
the body not really being a thing
anymore it still seems like this
principes is that yeah it does and
that’s why I said it gets kind of hard
to navigate that cuz I do see in the
world a body of Believers yeah and with
all of us having different gifts and
yeah and yeah I my impression is that
then there was these there were these
specific
gifts to not cause division in a literal
body and like they wanted to stay solid
and protected or whatever but now it’s
spiritual where we have love for one
another and the things that that person
brings but it’s not
necessarily like in the ways that it was
for them or as dire necessarily but
that’s how he works with us does that
sound ni it does it does and today you
know all believes are contributing to
the family the body if you want to make
it the body want to make it family you
know any of those terms I think still
work the called out still works but the
bride doesn’t work it just doesn’t work
with us we are not the bride and that’s
what everyone who are in evangelicalism
call Believers we’re the bride yeah and
the family is different
because the body it’s more the body
needs all the parts to function right
where the family it’s like it doesn’t
need like if one Falls away it doesn’t
break the family right right necessarily
good point is that true oo that’s a
really good point because we have
members of our family the Adams Road
thing yeah they they can become
cancerous and they get removed you know
but no that’s a really good point that
uh in that day the bride the body had to
be whole yeah and it was one whole body
that God related to but now the family
with them as parents we to them yeah
that makes sense doesn’t it that’s a
really good catch I didn’t even think of
that I’m surprised I know yeah but
um there’s still and then in the same
way the way the body has all the
functions and different gifts we
individually are able to maybe acquire
all of them like you’re saying like you
have more wisdom and more faith yeah cuz
indidual youen to pursue more to find
more and to rely more by faith on him to
them to you yeah and you say like you
don’t have healing but you do you heal
people with your words yeah like it
seems like all of these things are just
based on the way you have taught like
it’s all spiritual there is a literal
like these things that are listed are
spiritually still going on even like the
gift of tongues yeah if you speak in the
spiritual language that people can
understand that might be a form of it we
are so literal that it has to be but no
yeah it’s like you it’s a translation
thing that happens
across languages or or just perspectives
even or something but the thing I love
about that uh whole analogy which you
may be getting to is when he says it’s
the unseemly it’s the yeah and like if
you think about it we have a little vein
somewhere that connects certain things
and if that thing breaks it’s ugly but
if it breaks you’re dead yeah right but
you can have your face which is
beautiful and your body out you know if
you’re the eyes of the fa you get all
the attention you get all but it’s those
ugly hidden parts that are so important
yeah and that is why Jesus says the last
will be first and the first will be last
it’s the insignificant who never get
anything but just walk in the faith they
really are the most amazing souls and
and I Marvel at them I get on TV you
know and I get some some some stuff from
this or whatever and I am more like the
face of the thing and you get all the
attention but I I just marvel at the
lowly broken humble men and women out
there who just follow him mm and they
allow themselves to experience poverty
and they they they just love him humbly
and that blows my mind it also makes me
really sick of people who use the faith
to build themselves up yeah it’s insane
yeah um it seems like that’s applicable
to parts of ourselves too like the parts
of ourselves that are I love that yeah
less attention grabbing are the
important parts yes of yeah that’s
beautiful so that lends right into
humility yeah you know it reminds me of
that old Indian story I think I may have
already shared if I did tell me uh it
comes from the Hindu culture where a man
just fell in love with a woman in the
market she was gorgeous did I ever tell
you this no I don’t think so and she
said oh yeah you you love me yes I want
to marry you I’ll give you everything
and so she say okay come back in 90 days
so during that time she goes and she
starves herself and she uses uh purative
uh herbs and she vomits and this is how
it’s told defecates into this big tin in
her backyard and it she becomes so
unhealthy and really really her hair
starts breaking off and her Skin’s
lesions because she won’t feed the Flesh
and then he comes back in 90 days to
marry her and she opens the door and he
what has happened to you and she said Oh
I thought you loved me this is where my
beauty is
wow that’s amazing isn’t that a great
story yeah it’s so good I got I got
those things from studying the religions
back in the last years that is so good
though isn’t that this life yeah yeah
and it’s I I wish we could get women
especially to understand that because
the outward stuff it’s this Earth it’s
the flesh it’s the heart and that you
know just to bring it back to home
that’s the beautiful thing about Mom
she’s attractive but bottom line in the
end she has the most beautiful soul
she’s screwed up too she’s got she’s got
anger and all kinds of but when the
rubber meets the road she is that
beautiful soul yeah that’s really sweet
yeah and so do
you thank you yeah and you have the
outward Beauty
too no I
don’t
um
yeah it’s funny cuz I feel like I gloss
over the big ones just
because like it’s obvious how amazing it
is it’s a weird I don’t know why I’m
doing that it’s like but that’s an an
amazing one it and I didn’t
um but he continues
on now that you are the body of Christ
well wait if one part suffers every part
suffers with it if one part’s honored
every part rejoices with it that’s a
part that’s a aspect of it that you
don’t think of either like we all if we
bring down the bad aspects of the family
or whatever like we’re all brought down
yeah I think it’s more pertinent to the
body image because if you just get a
infected toe you’re in misery right but
now it’s true we got to support the
family and when you attack a family
member and bring them down it’s it’s not
good it just isn’t it’s a it’s
it’s um like you can see it in actual
like literal families yeah you can like
when one’s down the rest of the family
it just doesn’t work well so
and I would even be so liberal to say
that the family now is the whole world
well yeah it seems like that there’s
there’s heirs in that family and there’s
people who have left the family or sort
of so like let’s just say that uh I
don’t want to mention a name let’s say
we had another daughter and her name was
mag okay not mags her name was
Cindy Cindy’s still my daughter yeah but
let’s say Cindy does not want anything
to do with us she’s on drugs she hates
God she’s still my daughter yeah but
she’s not part of the family yeah and
she doesn’t want to be she stays
outside God do I still love Cindy of
course she’s my creation yeah but she
does not want to be and that’s more how
to see this that makes a lot of
sense that makes a lot of sense
yeah um
we’re past 20 minutes where are we at in
the chapter let’s finish it okay yeah
there’s a few verses left now you are
the body of Christ each one of you is a
part of it and God has placed the church
the church which I didn’t so he just
tied Body of Christ to church right
there okay and he says it to them then
we read that now and we say that’s us
not true yeah and God has placed in the
church first of all Apostles second
prophets third teachers then Miracles
then Gifts of healing of helping of
guidance different kinds of tongues are
all Apostles are all prophets are all
teachers do all work miracles do all
have the gifts of healing do all speak
in tongues do all interpret now eagerly
desire the greater
gifts and yet I will show you the most
excellent way and boy does he bring us
into and that’s why body bride here now
he’s bringing us into the more excellent
way which is why we preach the more
excellent way sure
see but um yeah I before we go to that
line placed in the
church I didn’t know they referred to
themselves as a church yes but you know
where that comes from the Old Testament
the Ecclesia the church the called out
is used as much in the Old Testament as
it is in the new but it’s in the Hebrew
but it’s the same thing so so when
Christ comes in the uh gospels and he
says if there’s a sinner among you uh go
unto them and if they won’t listen to
you take them to the Elders of the
church and you have to say what church
there was no church then established he
was out just doing his ministry at that
point he’s referring to what was before
the Gathering of the Believers in the
Old Testament you see so we don’t see
that stuff we think it’s an
Administration for church here and now
but really it was speaking to something
that had existed well before he ever
came that’s interesting the called out
um by the
way in the past
episode you talked about the nation of
Israel yeah and then you said when law
came in they became Jews no it’s not
when law came in it’s when they took the
law and made it their God okay so like
why I don’t understand the terminology
like why Jews at that point they weren’t
Jews in the nation of Israel before um
not there were Jews Hebrews nation of
Israel they all mean the same thing but
they don’t just put it this
way Abraham Isaac Jacob Jacob 12 uh Sons
that’s the nation of Israel okay okay
they ultimately to make it easy
separated and to a northern kingdom and
a southern Kingdom all right and they
both respectively northern and southern
went into
bondage when they came out of bondage
the Assyrians and the
Babylonians there was a dispersement of
most of those tribes but the remnant
regathered in judah’s land oh Judah and
they came out and they gathered from
that and so they were all identified as
Jews
that’s when the nation of Israel
simmered down to people called
Jews and they went forward and they
started to make the law everything
scribal law and so those guys came
forward and so that’s why when Jesus
shows up 400 years later it’s the whole
faith has become
Jews and but they don’t uh he is looking
for those who are part of Judaism
who are true nation of Israel who are
from different tribes and different
places he’s the Jew thing became like an
identity that was not of God God wanted
the nation of Israel which was made of
12 sons they all kind of identified
under one banner and by the time we get
to the apostolic record they’re called
Jews does that make sense yeah and this
is dumb but the 12 sons are
not like their dad is
Jacob Jacob and Isaac’s sons are
Arabs Isaac had two sons um no wait no
no no Abraham had the two sons the first
one was from Hagar the handmaiden and
that is ishma and from ishma came the
yeah Isaac and Jacob’s sons are
Israel
Isaac but Isaac had two sons too one was
Esau and one was I mean
and Jacob one was Jacob one was Esau oh
it because Abraham Isaac then Jacob
below that Esau and Jacob were Isaac’s
Sons yes and then Jacob had 12 sons
which were right and Esau Esau is a
different Tri a different group but the
the interesting thing is they’re
still uh part of Abraham’s family wow
yeah yeah as is ishmael’s that’s right
and people do not want to believe or see
that so what we do is we pick the hell
on those people while the real culprits
have been his own uh chosen people the
Jews and the right yeah the Jews which
were part of the nation of Israel that
took it the wrong way basically
um the nation of Israel is defined as
Abraham’s descendants or Jacob’s both
because any of Abrahams are the nation
of Israel no no no no there’s a line
that’s the thing it gets confusing so
Abraham uhhuh and then he has ishmail
right and Isaac yeah Isaac’s the chosen
one okay ishma Arabs they were not the
chosen but they were loved he made them
a great nation okay why did you sorry
but why did you say Abraham’s
descendants are
are like what they’re all sons of Abra
they’re not they’re not nation of Israel
but they’re all sons of Abraham which is
still like a
designation higher than a normal person
yes higher than the outliers yes is
there a chance that
like
Muslim or Islam I always get these terms
mixed up don’t hate me um is like of God
in oh absolutely yeah yeah absolutely
they became War like and they weren’t
his chosen people through whom he would
bring the Messiah right but he loved
them and he said to ishmail I will make
you a great nation wow but we don’t want
to even now ishmail came through a
handmaiden Hagar she was not the chosen
woman Abraham and Sarah were the couple
and from Sarah alone came Isaac so we
have that line delineated however that
does does not mean God did not love
Ishmael and his offspring yeah it’s just
through the line he brought the Messiah
and that’s what the whole old
testament’s
about which the Messiah like covers
ish’s descendants too yeah not just and
someday ishmael’s descendants in the
lives of each individual uh
Muslim yeah uh they will come to know
who he is wow yeah and they have been
reconciled to him and he is their and so
it says every knee will bow and every
tongue will confess they are not second
class citizens no the evil ones are evil
just like the evil Christians are evil
but it does not mean God did not love
them yeah
and it seems like they would people
would blame it on it being like a
handmaiden or whatever but like doesn’t
Jesus aren’t there like really dirty
things
line so that’s a stupid argument but in
for argument sake we can see how when
you act on your own flesh to take the
handmaiden it just wasn’t supposed to be
that not that it was bad and so it
turned into problems for the true nation
yeah because man acted on their own will
Abraham and Sarah said let take my
handmaiden so it created problems but it
doesn’t mean God doesn’t love him yeah
and like uses it yes to his he does use
it to torture them and go after them
when they start to get so we try to box
everything into these little ways he is
so much bigger wow and just to take it
even further if we take
Ishmael so we that’s just one line we
know of Abraham the rest of the world
was in
paganism but he also loved that other
nation and so the Hindus and the
Buddhists that’s I was just going to ask
where does that come from that’s all
from a different uh fruit of the tree of
knowledge of Good and Evil and it all
comes in different ways that are both
good and bad but God so loved the world
he sent his son to reconcile all of us
which is why we have the CPI and off
because we’re trying to say we believe
what we believe but we believe it
includes you and this is the great news
it’s better than just what the good news
was to the Jews but you say that and
people just can’t take it it’s really
hard
to know what you’re saying it is like
there is so much context to what you’re
saying that people just think you’re
like spitting an opinion like a
preference no no no we’ve worked this
out yeah and that’s why uh we’re hooked
to something that is so important you
know but we’re not alone in this this
isn’t sha mccan and Delany mccrae’s
prophecy this has been there yeah yeah
um we’ve talked about this once this is
my last question but ishma has Muhammad
right yeah Muhammad is an is
muslim’s person Prophet yeah that
Muhammad is Moses to Muslims right
Muhammad is Christ oh yeah he is the
final Prophet to a Muslim oh yeah so
what happened is that but
but Muslims and Muhammad recognize
Christ what was the is Muhammad like um
I forget the word but chronologically at
the same time as Jesus no no he was
before no he was after after yeah I’m
pretty sure I’m not good on um that but
what made him the lost so now this takes
us to a new thing so we have Christ come
and do his thing and if I’m wrong on on
the date it’s okay so
Muhammad he has a vision and he goes to
a cave and an angel shows up to him and
dictates to him a book and it’s called
the
Quran and the Quran at the opening says
it’s the most correct book on the face
of the Earth Joseph Smith so the the
parallels between those two groups are
insanely close they work by law Muslim
and Juda Muslims and Mormons
oh and because they come from one man
who had Visions brought forth a book
they call it the most correct book on
the face of the Earth you see and so the
parallels between those religions are
very exact in how they live and how they
wow that is wild
and
except except Mormons wrap Jesus in with
that which is a weird thing they do and
that’s what we’re talking about on
Harlem matter now is the
ingenious cobbling together of
Christianity restored by Smith and
Freemasonry restored by Smith cobbled
together in a
religion that is so hard to beat when
it’s an Evangelical talking about their
stuff to a Mormon who sees the faith in
a way that the Evangelical can’t compete
with mhm and because they can’t compete
with it it looks like Mormonism as a
religion is superior it’s actually more
Sinister wow yeah wow that’s a huge
subject it’s mindblowing how that’s a
huge the whole thing it’s mind-blowing
that like Muslims and Jews are fighting
today yeah harder than they ever have
yeah because of Brothers yeah Brothers
literal Brothers yeah it’s and I don’t
know why they can’t go back to that and
to say we come from the same father
literally the same father yeah but ones
this one’s
the stepchild or like
the puts it is ishmail is a product of
the
flesh but Isaac is a product of the
spirit and he makes a comparison between
that and that’s the same war that goes
on with us now wow we are flesh and
spirit so is the flesh going to win
that’s how it is comes together it is so
are you starting to see The Genius of of
it’s
crazy it’s crazy yeah there’s actual
babies with their heads cut off yeah
laying on the ground right now because
of that and that’s what God Said when
she when Abraham took Hagar is I’m going
to make you a great nation but this is
going to cause you problems and it’s
problems even out till today God that’s
insane great stuff it makes your
questions are starting to elevate in in
understanding the the Old Testament is
you go back to our first shows it’s
awesome cuz you’re just like and now
you’re you’re getting things and it’s
really beautiful to watch than for the
patience no um
I love this I could spend all day doing
this with different people if they would
be willing to seek and ask questions
Reach Out people reach out man call in
on Thursdays call in there’s it makes
one last point is it makes no sense that
Christians would have a
side in that war to me okay so here’s
the sense of the Christians having a
side in that war they’re waiting for
Jesus to come back to Israel Jerusalem
and save us to take us all the Believers
up so they have to side with Israel they
can’t side with Muslims because Israel
is the ones who own Jerusalem it’s in
Israel and Christ is coming back to save
us so we have to support the land that
he came from but why like Christ can
come back on that land no matter who’s
on it I know but they but Israel is from
the line Israel is from the line and
because we’re Christians who come from
the line we support Israel because
that’s who Christ came from and not the
fleshly line of of
ishmail that just is not a good argument
to me yeah it’s well it does make some
sense I mean if there is a line one of
the flesh one of the spirit and the one
of the spirit goes down through and
Christ comes through that line and those
are the Jews but God himself loves the
Muslims right but his love for them is
not part of the line but the line that’s
bringing the Messiah is going to cover
those Muslims too right but they see
that as happening after he comes for his
own so eschatology plays a huge part in
getting your mindset right but I just
don’t get
like I get in
like principle being like I like the
Jews because I’m a Christian and they
come from the line but to support them
having the land just feels like not that
necessary but that’s the land that was
promised them to their father Abraham
and to the line that is spiritual they
were to come in we’re talking about that
now come into the promised land and take
that land that uh Muslims and Jews fight
over today and Muslims say that they
were promised that land they their ha
their lineage in history says that’s our
land so they’re fighting over that well
the land has shrunken down to a little
strip Gaza yeah and they fight over that
tooth and nail what
is who was promised it why do they think
that like because in Muhammad’s writings
he oh it’s Muhammad’s writings and it’s
retrospective okay yeah that’s why
Muhammad is the one claiming that land
and the Old Testament is the one
claiming that land exactly okay and the
Old Testament which is a history of the
nation of Israel through Abraham Isaac
and Jacob and not Ishmael and those and
uh that story has God say those who
support you I support and those who are
against you I will destroy Christians
read that and they say we have to
support Israel
now and so then we have our political
leaders knowing that not being Christian
step up on the conservative side the
Trump side today and say we support
Israel Christians join with me so that’s
why Christians are usually so
conservative and Republican and go for
people like Trump yeah but the
eschatology destroys that so you know
what the claim is against our
eschatology we’re
anti-semitic that’s what people would
say if they heard you don’t love the
Jews that’s not true you see how that
works yeah but there is an element of
the Jews caused all of this in
fulfillment the fulfilled perspective is
like they really effed it up well there
is that but uh I would agree you can see
that but any Christian can see it too I
mean Martin Luther said if you find a
Jew burn their house wow yeah he was
anti-semitic as you can get I mean
Christians pick on uh Joseph Smith and
briam young for saying things he and and
Calvin they said so many horrific things
and this is way after Christ came and
did what he
did yeah this is a really confusing
topic to me is it it’ll C up cuz like
yeah but what we’re talking about now
for your age and your friends and the I
mean everybody is pro Palestine they
really are yeah and everybody is and and
there’s only you know certain ones who
are brave enough to say no you know like
Ben Shapiro and stuff uh but it’s but
it’s becoming like the world is becoming
so humanist that they don’t even care
about the they don’t even care about the
scriptural connection anymore oh no it’s
very ridiculed like how can you how can
you say God is giving you this land
that’s ridiculous yeah but the the
Muslims are saying that that’s what I
don’t understand they’re also saying
that so I don’t know the irony of it is
that the liberal side of our world the
lgbtq and all that who are defending
Palestine would be beheaded for their
behaviors by the Palestinians true yeah
so I mean it’s just so stupid but then
again I don’t know what the Jews would
do to him either so yeah that’s true I
want nothing to do with it I don’t
either
like why we even want to have a say in
it
Palestinian the fight yeah like everyone
wants the fight to stop and that I
understand that’s like there are there
are children by the hundreds and
thousands dying it’s insane I don’t it
just shouldn’t even be a fight at all so
guess what would bring peace and this is
something I reached out to somebody
years ago oh yeah we have the solution
fulfill fulfillment it would bring peace
to all of us at least it would bring the
us to stop being so pro Israel yeah but
uh I when I I I was just da I want this
to be on the record I said if you’re
Palestinian I love you if you’re a Jew I
love you yeah that’s the Christian
perspective yeah should be like
yes and there is no Christian politics
no
none say it’s all this world yeah this
is another good one it’s another good
one did we finish 12 another 45 minute
one too we did finish 12 and yet I will
show you a most excellent way 13 oh and
what is
that
about
love okay well see you later bye
