Faith without religion.
Rebirth and Reconciliation: Understanding the New Jerusalem and the Spirit of God
Bible, Spirit, Rebirth
In a recent episode of “I Don’t Get the Bible,” Delaney and her dad, Shawn, delve into the complexities of First Corinthians chapter 12, exploring the nature of spiritual gifts and their origins. They discuss how Paul emphasizes that all spiritual gifts come from God, provided they point to and elevate Him. The conversation touches on the differing views within Christianity, such as cessationism, which argues that spiritual gifts have ceased, and the charismatic movement, which believes these gifts are still active.
The duo also examines the broader context of the Bible, highlighting the importance of the Old Testament in understanding God’s intentions. They argue that the New Testament should be seen as a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies rather than a separate entity. This perspective challenges the traditional Christian focus on the New Testament as the primary scripture.
The discussion further explores the historical and theological implications of the early church fathers and their role in shaping modern Christianity. Delany and Shawn question the authority claimed by various Christian sects, suggesting that the true authority lies in the spirit and the teachings of Jesus.
Throughout the episode, they emphasize the importance of understanding the Bible as a historical and spiritual narrative that culminates in the reconciliation of humanity with God through Jesus. This understanding, they argue, should lead to a more inclusive and compassionate approach to faith, focusing on love and humility rather than strict adherence to doctrine.
The episode concludes with a reflection on the nature of spiritual rebirth, suggesting that it is more about recognizing the spirit within us and choosing to live in alignment with God’s love and truth. This perspective offers a fresh take on Christianity, encouraging believers to focus on personal growth and understanding rather than rigid religious practices.
Podcast Transcript:
welcome to I don’t get the Bible with
Delany and Shan daughter and dad and we
are in First Corinthians chapter 12 this
is part two Delaney take it
away okay so we read the first few
verses we’ll start around verse four now
um even
so oh whoops
sorry uh there are different kinds of
gifts so he just came from saying that
uh we were talking about how he said you
know that you are pagan somehow your
influence LED astray I want you to know
no one who is speaking by the spirit of
God can say Jesus Christ except by the
Holy Spirit and last episode you we got
to the point where you had identified
that things of the dark wield God’s
power uh toward different ends that
weren’t supposed to be yeah like be like
starting from Adam and Eve eating from
the Tree of knowledge evil and I say
that because I feel like it’s going to
come up over the next um few chapters
again
so uh verse four there are different he
goes into gifts there are different
kinds of gifts but the Same Spirit
distributes them they’re different kinds
of service but the same lord they’re
different kinds of working but all but
in all of them and in everyone it is the
same God at work so given that we talked
about that
mhm I’m wondering
like he’s talking to the Corinthians and
saying to them your gifts and your work
and all that stuff it’s all coming from
the same place but is that applicable to
all gifts and service would you say
because there decept there’s
counterfeits and and uh deceptions and
uh spirits that wield power and Etc so
what Paul is trying to say is that
whatever gifts of the Spirit come come
to you guys they’re all from God okay as
long as the spiritual gift points to God
and points to elevating him him alone no
others when people use gifts signs
Wonders that are from another source the
end result is not God it’s something
else so right right so the end result is
is the gauge sort of I think that’s how
I would see it however just to let you
know we live in an age many scholars or
representatives of the faith today are
called
cessationists secessionists and they
believe all of that is
over they don’t even without the
Fulfillment yeah even without the
Fulfillment they it’s arbitrary they say
no there’s no more signs and wonders so
they make that decision John MacArthur
is a huge uh calvinist uh and has a huge
following and he’s a secessionist
there’s no more of these gifts they say
however if you look at the charismatic
movement Pentecostals and such they uh
like bethl they believe these gifts are
all there and you know and so it’s
really tough to decide how you’re going
to see it I think that uh I don’t think
anything is stopped in terms of
spiritual gifts but I don’t think that
they are um
done like like a big show yeah I think
they’re private personal things and God
is working okay yeah there we’ll get
more into spec he like names the gifts
and stuff so we can get specific it is
weird that well first of all is it
secessionist usually related to
Calvinism would you say not usually
there’s all sorts of but uh MacArthur is
a huge leader in Calvinism yeah and so
probably Calvinists are more like we
don’t need all this it seems like they
just in their personality wouldn’t like
those gifts they don’t like emotions
yeah um okay but
then it’s odd
like people it seems like people just
pick a part of the
Bible and that’s the whole thing for
them like bethl it’s so charismatic
that’s every day all day that’s all
they’re talking about no other part of
the Bible
and that’s why I really don’t appreciate
those elements of the faith today and I
have yet to find a reasonably
minded person who hasn’t been damaged by
that Focus they typically get very
damaged uh in some way through that
approach yeah um
you’re saying they’re
damaged after they leave it or in it
they’re well they’re in it they become
like you said focused only on that and
they they lose a lot and they they rely
on a lot of very strange signs to govern
their life they see uh in their soup the
organization of the noodles is telling
them I see Jesus in I mean it’s just
endless when you step into emotionalism
to promote your faith and a lot of that
is based in the evidence of spiritual
gifts uh it it doesn’t work I was just
talking to Kevin Kennington you know
Kevin and and we were talking about when
we were in the school of ministry
together we had a class and the teacher
uh said now we’re going to talk about
tongues and he said how many of you
believe in tongues and like half the
class raised it and um he goes okay
let’s do it one two three and and that
part of the class all started doing it
oh my gosh yeah and Kevin Mike Winger
who is a huge online presence now who
was sitting with me and Kevin Kevin said
Mike and him at the same time went oh
man oh my gosh it’s like it’s just come
on yeah wow
um dang I had a it’s sort of a
tangential question but these
people it seems like a lot has come
since you started teaching the Old
Testament in terms of having a
comprehensive more comprehensive view of
all of this it you you’ve had it but
like my question is it feels like a lot
of these people just never talk about
the Old Testament at all right like it
seems like Christianity like doesn’t
refer to it and if they did they’d have
a better understanding of yeah gifts and
things like that
and you’re dead on in fact the scripture
truly is the Old Testament yeah and it’s
by reading that that you really are
learning what God was doing and how it
was done the what they call the New
Testament uh has become kind of
Christianity’s Idol yeah yeah and it
seems like that yeah and you really
cannot truly cannot understand the uh
God’s intentions and ways without an
understanding of the Old Testament how
knowing that how do you feel like you
align with Judaism differently than
Christians
today uh I probably uh most Christians
today are more pro- Judaism
pro-israel um you know Israel today yeah
I think Jews are for the most part uh
just a
lost expression of everything they
failed to do and my view of Jews in
terms of religion not the people people
who say we Jews I see them as completely
off base and and lost from the they were
lost when Christ showed up they yeah
they were gone they turned to all sorts
of stuff and the Old Testament is
proving this the study of it shows they
never ever were faithful there’s only a
few St followers who were
the rest of them were constantly
practicing idolatry constantly breaking
his laws and he’s and by the time we get
to Jeremiah he says I’m divorcing you
you know you were once my bride now I’m
divorcing you so Jesus comes to get the
bride and it’s of people who look to him
I’m realizing now I don’t really
know how the Old Testament works like it
was
written by prophets way back way back
and then how long of a time did they
have that
scripture set as a thing before Jesus
came like uh 1500 years okay yeah and it
was it was actually in progress like
Moses wrote Genesis Exodus Leviticus
Numbers Deuteronomy that’s called the
pentat or the
law that Andor job were the first
writings they think of the collection of
books and then as prophets would come
they would add books to their collection
I see to show how God what God was
saying to them okay um so but by the
time you get to 400 years before Christ
that’s when all of it stopped the last
book is Malachi and it’s this that’s it
we’re done and from Malachi for 400
years there is silence what do
Jews Jew what does the Jewish religion
think happened from then till now like
why did it stop do they think there are
prophets right now I don’t know what
they think about today if there are
prophets I don’t know I think they think
this is our history this is us and we’re
still waiting for this Messiah that was
promised to come that’s really weird
yeah and because that Jesus guy was a
phony that’s what they that’s what they
are but they
have like the Old Testament was like you
said it was a continually like added on
to thing that if it was still going You’
think it would still be going like God
would be working with people that still
ring more as prophets yeah I think they
think we have the history of everything
God wanted us to have and now we’re just
waiting for him to send us like bad
religion says the only true Messiah wow
to rescue us from
ourselves but they yeah so that’s the
that’s the stance okay so you
consider like that to
be something
that’s true scripture for Christians to
look at and be like God ended it at a
certain time God put up a bill of
divorcement I don’t really know what
happens but like he divorces the bride
and needed Jesus to come in at that
point to save it yeah and so then
Christians could technically read that
scripture and understand god without the
New Testament absolutely because the
Jews that’s was was on them you should
know who your Messiah is so I mean the
fact that Christians believe he came
they could validate that just by reading
the the Old Testament they can validate
that actually just by the spirit and
never read either book because it’s the
spirit that God put in charge but the
book’s a gift you know it’s a value we
learn principles and and and things but
we don’t worship it it’s you know it’s
really interesting to think of
Christianity that way where it’s like
yesu yes came to the Yeshua came to stop
a religion not start one like
technically there’s the Old Testament he
came and it should have been done there
but then they recorded all the stuff
that was meant for that time when before
he came back yeah and now it’s become a
religion to focus on that thing that for
just that time yeah that is so wild and
they people won’t see that yeah they
they just and they they want to take and
make the New Testament our scripture the
Jews have the old we have the new but
the new is just fulfilling everything
the old said that’s all it is and and
and we have it and we look at it and we
learn principles but to go by it you
have church playing and a mess that
we’ve been in for 2,000
years like there’s a way to see it as
the New Testament is almost
like I don’t know how to say it like
there’s the prophecies that were
supposed to be filled in the Old
Testament and they just like it’s a
record of fulfilling them and that’s
what that’s what Revelation is it is the
wrapping up of all of that the end of
all of that it’s done he’s going to come
back get ready because when he does he’s
going to destroy everything that has
been that has been believed on since the
beginning of Genesis and it’s over it’s
done wow that like really
does something to speaking to people who
are doing Christianity now and like like
we’re coming back to like the gifts and
stuff it’s like if they saw it that way
which is what you’re trying to do like
they would never be looking that you
look at religion very differently and on
things like we’re studying today we’re
reading a record of what was then are
there gifts MacArthur says no I say I
think God is this is the whole thing is
by the Spirit today and I think there
are Miracles and I think God does step
in when he’s invited and when it’s of
his will and does help us and that
people can have some of the gifts we’re
going to talk about one other thing
about the scripture you asked about when
did why did it stop
yeah the Jewish
Canon of scripture is Genesis through
Malachi okay okay but there are books
that are came about during that 400-year
period after Malachi after Malachi
between the end of Malachi and the
coming of Christ and they are known as
the apocryphal books pseudepigraphal
books and they are not included in the
Jewish Bibles but some Christians will
include those in their Bibles
interesting Judith and there a bunch of
very strange one the reason they aren’t
included is because most of them they
include some interesting things that are
true but they also include weird stuff
that doesn’t concur with anything wow
and so like everything some people say
well do the Catholics I think put those
books in their Bibles yeah so there’s
another Factor about the Bible which
Bible are you reading do the Catholics
do that because they want the lineage of
prophets or whatever I don’t know if
they do it for that or if they just see
I don’t I don’t I don’t know if that’s
why they do it that’s a good question if
it helps them construct this line I
don’t know yeah do are there religions
this is so stupid but do Christian
religions connect Apostles to the
prophets of the Old Testament like is it
the same line of authority no that’s not
a connection for Christians it’s a
different office it’s a different
calling okay prophets did one thing
Apostles did something apostolos or
those who are sent out okay prophets are
those in the Old Testament who are are
telling them what’s going to happen Okay
and then when prophets are mentioned in
the New Testament it’s typically
teachers who are teaching what the
spirit is saying it’s not
necessarily this is what’s going to
happen and so that’s the Mormons have
the prophet and then the apostles are
the ones yeah technically going out or
something doubt prophet and apostles but
Paul says in Ephesians that
the the church the bride is built on a
foundation of Apostles first Mormons
switch that when they teach prophets and
apostles but Paul and orders are
important in scripture he says built on
a foundation of Apostles and Prophets
with Jesus Christ being the Chief
Cornerstone of a foundation so
foundations aren’t poured and reported
and added to and everything else that
was set through this so the Mormon’s
idea of all this continued Apostles and
Prophets doesn’t fit that picture but
they’re they think their Prophet is the
pro I asked if the apostles were in the
lineage but actually it should have been
are the prophets now to Christians
connected to Moses and the and the Old
Testament prophets it depends on the
sect but most Christians do not see men
or women as prophets or prophetesses
speaking for the Lord unless they’re
very charismatic
okay and in those charismatic churches
somebody will stand up and say I want to
prophesy okay but there is still a huge
thing about Authority in the Christian
church for some reason but it’s not
prophets and it’s not Apostles it’s just
whatever they came up with it’s an
authority that they derive from reading
the scripture they don’t have any line
of authority which makes
evangelicalism reformed churches the
biggest joke on Earth yeah it’s really
weird least Catholics have like some
sort of reasoning right and Mormons
saying the Catholics got LED astray and
then and Joseph Smith watching the the
Reformation churches who had no
Authority he’s outsmarts them and says
yeah I had all these guys come back and
give me all this power wow so they
jumped over all the dark and John the
Baptist came and laid his hands on me
Peter James and John came and laid their
hands on me and I had The Authority
wow I’ve never thought about that those
teachings that’s the picture in the
Mormon church is him getting his I
didn’t know that’s y wow
yeah I and I also never realized the
Christians are just I don’t understand
their their claim to Authority at all it
makes no sense so that’s why you’ll find
men like
uh uh the people we know in the valley
who hate me yeah they will focus and
hearken and hearken to the early church
fathers because they’ll say they set the
standard of what the faith would be they
were like the
new prophets or Apostles and we look to
them to we look at the Apostle we look
at Christ we look at the Apostle okay we
look at the prophets of the Old
Testament we look at Christ and the
apostles we look to the early church
fathers and we are carrying on those
Traditions forward by the authority of
the spirit because of our knowledge of
scripture okay that is literally the
dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and what
do we have from that chaos
that’s when you put it that way that’s
what it is it’s truly the dumbest thing
i’ ever heard wait early church
fathers got I’m trying to like find if
there’s any connection like where did
the early church fathers think that had
Authority because the the apostles while
they were being killed off before they
left the Earth the original 12 and then
Paul who Jesus called they established
churches okay okay and in doing that
they called deacons and elders and
people to govern those local churches
okay the the ancient histories tell
about some of them being ordained by an
apostle and then that the ones who were
ordained it’s very thin line then
ordained other men who were the early
church
fathers and then the early church
fathers kept this line of purity of
Doctrine and practice in place okay yeah
so they do think they have a lineage but
they don’t they don’t claim that as
their Authority they claim just their
knowledge of what those guys taught as
their Authority there’s no the people
today you mean right people yeah but the
the early church fathers
there’s a very thin connection between a
couple of them to John polycarp and
Irani irus irus yeah all of these
Antioch and all these guys there’s a
little we knew John and he told us this
and they try to construct this continued
Unity but they don’t rely on that
because as they don’t rely on it as a
laying on of hands to give the authority
they were r on it as the truth of
knowledge that was passed down and they
appeal to that knowledge and therefore
they operate by the ancient path they
operate by what has always been true
yeah always for less than 2,000
years after they’re not even referring
to the apostles they’re referring to
people after the apostles who help set
the church in order including the
Trinity my gosh and all this other stuff
right
and the irony of the whole thing is none
of the early church fathers were correct
completely correct in their
understanding of things they all
contradicted each other and that was the
beginning of heresy it wasn’t the beg it
wasn’t the continuation of a church
because Christ had taken his church the
early church fathers were left in the D
they were a Remnant they weren’t even
taken so they and that’s what that’s
right that’s what that’s our point is
like the ones who weren’t taken are the
ones who started the church and that’s
why we get Catholicism yeah like right
technically you guys weren’t the saved
ones yeah and you’ve built a foundation
on the ones who weren’t now we don’t put
that too much because there’s God does
in throughout scripture leave a remnant
of Believers so he may not have taken
some to keep the faith going people ask
well how does the faith go if the bride
was taken but my comment is I think more
people who were deluded were left at
that time and they continued on with the
practice of complete craziness but I
asked this later the
bride was an Old Testament thing it was
an old test thing that God married the
nation of Israel okay at Mount Si that
was a katuba contract of marriage
between the nation of Israel that came
from Abraham Isaac and Jacob went to
bondage and then at SI he took them out
of bondage and he that was their
marriage contract okay okay but they
lost that identity they lost that
identity because they weren’t like how
would you describe what that means they
lost that identity means they did not
obey the contract okay they they broke
it every time they could okay so what
happens is God punishes them punishes
them punishes them he puts them in in
captivity to Babylon and Assyria and
they’re in that and when they come out
they learn their lesson we won’t follow
after other gods what did they begin to
worship and follow the law which was
given to Moses and the law went from The
Ten Commandments to 613 Commandments by
the time Jesus shows up to say I’m the
Messiah they said you’re no Messiah and
they they worship the law right yeah
instead of looking to him okay who is
the Fulfillment of all of that okay so
that’s kind of the chronology that we’re
looking at okay and so the
bride is who Jesus came for from his own
which
was the nation of Israel it was from the
remnant of what was the nation of Israel
that are now called Jews under the law
and he comes and says I’m here to grab
anybody who is real Israel from back in
the old day who loves God I’m here to
for you to say I’m your Messiah believe
on me and I’ll take you and make you the
bride God promised to make of the nation
and then when he did that it also was
like if you’re not one of those people
but still believe in the right way you
can also be a part of that Gentiles yeah
because it was prophesied that the
Gentiles would be included okay so
that’s why after the palis go out to
gather Jews when Jesus leaves and says
I’m going to come back uh Peter opens
the door and Paul then starts going to
the Gent saying come on the time is
getting close if you want to be part of
this bride even as a gentile you can
that’s the context of what the apostolic
record is teaching okay and then yeah
Jesus returned and took that bride which
was like all the faithful since the
beginning of time has been a really
specific group of people yeah faithful
with a few more that are like most of
them are people coming from the nation
that they originally was and then he
opened up to a few more just like in
that area
basically and then so the brides
taken and the the people left you’re
saying some of them would be Believers
yeah
and like maybe I’m just trying to
characterize like what we are like
anyone even people in that time that
weren’t the nation of
Israel that didn’t even know about Jesus
or the law or
anything they could have been Believers
in their own way would you say like do
they have access to God yes boy you’re
getting into some good stuff so they had
access to God why because the Holy
Spirit was not only given to Jews at
Pentecost later it was given to Gentiles
through through cornelius’s family who
were not Jews and the Holy Spirit goes
where it wants so let’s just make what
time is that before Jesus that’s that’s
before his return but after he was
living yeah Jesus lived di the Holy
Spirit and then at and then 50 days
later the apostles gather and the holy
spirit’s given only to Jews and then 10
years later about the apostles are going
out and calling Jews get ready you want
to be saved you want to be saved from
the coming destruction that’s been
promised believe on him believe on him
and then about 10 years into that Paul
is called to come on and now Express
this to the Gentiles to come and join us
too if you want and more of them join
than Jews so that’s this bride that
Jesus came back and took to the New
Jerusalem which scripture said is above
and it leaves that other one just out of
it’s gone it’s of the old Covenant old
rebellious people done for okay new
Jerusalem new heaven new Earth all of
that and that’s what we live in today
and continue to live in today and like
say there wasn’t a New Testament written
right which it probably shouldn’t have
been maybe well I think it should have
been because it was letters given to
those Believers then in those areas with
specific problems so they could be part
of the bride and be pure and holy and
without spot oh the letters for them but
I mean for us it should shouldn’t have
been formulated into a book that we
fallar I think it should have just been
added as these are the writings of the
Apostles learn what God did at that time
because there’s principles in there that
are valuable about faith and all this
stuff but there’s many things in it that
are not applicable to us okay so
then like I have two more questions the
you might have said this and I didn’t
hear it but the
people that weren’t
I just feel like there’s people in like
a different part of the world that just
weren’t a part of this that was the
hypothetical I was going to give you so
then everyone says well if he took his
bride how did the faith continue on
there’s a few theories one one is
there’s a Remnant okay and I believe
that’s entirely possible okay but the
other one is let’s say he took only the
pure and he destroyed the rest in
Jerusalem and the world the day after
that event happened in 70 AD was void of
Truth at all well who’s in charge of the
faith in this world the spirit that’s
right so the spirit could go to some guy
out in Texas if it existed give him he
could then start sharing so it’s not
like we had to have this line anymore
the spirit is the thing that is in
charge okay that’s the case now yeah
that’s the case since the story’s been
completed right
but what happened
to
like I feel like this whole thing is a
story like a real story for us to just
like look
to so but there were at the time the
story in the time of it happening was
very like material and real so there
were people that literally weren’t from
the lineage or were there were there
people that weren’t from the lineage of
Abraham Isaac and Jacob or whatever that
just had nothing to do with this whole
scenario they weren’t the bride they’re
just random people they didn’t know
about God did they know about God when
you say they were of Abraham Isaac and
Jacob that they were not okay you’re
just talking about other other people oh
yeah absolutely the world was full of
other people did they even know did they
was God a per thing for them
probably okay there’s two answers one
they would have known about the true and
living God and the his son coming only
by virtue of Word of
Mouth uh or the spirit or touching them
somehow if they were of true faith
during that time and they lived in Guam
somehow or the spirit touched them they
would have probably joined the bride or
maybe God left them there to be a
Remnant to inam share what they came to
know but they’re what I’m talking like
there wasn’t a spirit at like the Spirit
came at a certain point for the nation
of Israel before that there wasn’t one
like in when Moses was doing all his
stuff there was a spirit but it rested
upon people not in them okay yeah so
like I think I’m just trying to ask like
we’re talking about the Old Testament as
being the real thing meaning God has
been working with people the whole time
we look to that I just don’t understand
like if it was so specifically for a
certain bride and it didn’t open up till
later there were just people that
weren’t the bride way back way back and
not when you okay two Brides though
first bride nation of Israel second
bride cold from the nation of Israel are
you talking about the nation of Israel
back when you go way back no yeah I’m
talking way back way
back I’m wondering if God like related
to those people that weren’t part of the
nation of Israel way back I’m sure he
did as in the way he does now with us oh
like I’m wondering no I I don’t think so
and here’s why I think he loved them but
I think they were all in darkness so
what he did was he took one he tried it
before with uh before with um Noah and
it didn’t work the whole the whole world
turned to violence only Soul saved eight
Souls of the the inhabited world in the
flood the rest were destroyed and it
bodess to so he says okay all right
we’re going to take a man named Abraham
and his wife and we’re going to bring a
nation forward they’re going to be my
son they’re going to be my bride they
both are used and I’m going to bring
them through to bring forth the Messiah
who will fix it for all those other
people okay they are going to be the
ones who are going to uh bring in
my truth and love and light to all the
world okay that’s what it is okay so God
it wasn’t necessarily that God was only
working with one group to like save them
and no one else was cons it was this was
a group that he used to get everybody
else included right by bringing through
that line a messiah okay right and that
was the that’s the whole Old Testament
story and the line was that line because
he knew they would fail sort of right
probably and many people say well why
did he pick them why are they so special
I think they were so horrible probably
that he knew they would ultimately put
his son to death because all through the
Old Testament all they keep doing is
turning from him that’s wild to think of
them as chosen they’re chosen for yeah
terrible wow but not but now since he’s
taken his true bride and destroyed
Jerusalem literally destroyed it that
was the city of Peace their Capital that
all Jews came to three times a year okay
when he and he destroyed it when they
were all there okay and if they weren’t
killed they went into a diaspora of
being sold into slavery since that time
there there there is no nation of
there’s no children of Israel by Blood
it’s over everybody is the same
everybody they are no longer part of
that we are all the same Jew and Gentile
alike and we I’ve never known I’ve never
thought of it and didn’t mention it when
you said it but it being called the New
Jerusalem it’s the New Jerusalem new
heaven new Earth it’s so wild I didn’t
I’ve never really understood that those
terms all right we’re on this so we just
got to talk about
this the story that you read in the
apostolic
record is Believe on him and be
reborn okay and receive the spirit and
you’ll be saved and you will be taken to
the New Jerusalem above in preparation
for the new Heaven and the new Earth
okay when they did that and it was all
done by Christ takes takes his
bride the whole world because he’s
called the the last Adam is returned to
the Garden of Eden now if the whole
world are forever in the Garden of Eden
as Adam and Eve were the whole world
Bears about the spirit of God within
them because Adam and Eve they were in
direct relationship with God the rebirth
that goes on for people in the world now
is not that they are dead in sin and and
have to be born from above from
something given them the whole world has
possession of him in them m they have
the ability to choose now they have the
ability to know good from Evil because
the whole world has been reconciled to
the father and so this is a very
important distinction because the
Calvinists say you’re dead in sin you
can’t pick anything good you have to
have God give this to you we say he gave
it to everybody through the victory of
his son the question is who want it in
the garden what people people say I want
the tree of life I want to bring out
what you’ve given me and recognize it
and how many people say I don’t want
that I want the tree of knowledge of
Good and Evil so when I was born again
at the side of the road I used to think
couch it under the way the New Testament
described it and be born again be born
again but the reality is I think really
what I experienced was recognizing all
that he had done in me and all the stuff
was attacked away where I finally got to
see that and you see the difference
between the two pictures so the
Christians today are telling everyone
you got to be born again you got to be
born again and when someone is in that
sense or if someone is because they’re
just recognizing what’s in them it
almost always comes about through
Brokenness and humility and and and so
either way it’s got to come about from
the
individual choosing to see what God has
done and what really is in them that’s
good and
alive and and then being willing to seek
that and so I see there is a difference
between rebirth in the New Testament
sense and rebirth in the fulfilled sense
yeah yeah it’s it’s like rebirth in the
New Testament sense is almost like
a it’s funny how much Christians hate
Mormons but that feels like a work like
you have to do do that where the rebirth
and the fulfilled SS
is a perspective like it it’s it’s not
going to change the fact that the sin’s
taken care of it has been taken care of
it’s just whether you choose to be
grateful for that or not almost and that
comes by humility yeah you can only
recognize your gratitude if you’re
humble enough to see that you needed it
and and and to be humble enough to see
that you needed it comes through humble
enough to desire truth to seek it yeah
because you won’t seek what’s in you
you’ll just keep camouflaging it with
all the things from the Tree of
knowledge of Good and Evil and you’ll
never realize what Christ did for you
and and that God has reconciled himself
to you that’s the state we are in for
now and forever more so people when we
die and they go to the outside of the
Kingdom they’re just still doing the
same thing they did here they’re not
punished they’re given life God loves
them but they don’t want
to discover what’s in them they don’t
want that they want and Jesus says they
love the darkness more than the light
okay so right now like this is what he
originally set out to do with Adam and
Eve yeah and he’s achieved it now yep
but the difference is that they were
punished when they did something and
we’re not right because Jesus takes care
of it now is that right took care of all
of it past present future right that’s
what the Messiah was coming to do he
took care of all the things that
separated us from God if he paid for all
of that then for the whole world the
whole world then has that spirit that
was in the garden what but without the
threat of punishment without the threat
of punishment but without access to the
father’s house because they won’t admit
that he is there for them they love the
darkness more than the light and that’s
the majority of people and they’re
sustaining themselves with the tree of
the life our tree of of Good and Evil
and they you literally just reap the the
benefits the consequences of either
right so if you reap uh the good of the
tree of knowledge of Good and Evil then
you are doing good in this life you’re
saving you aren’t doing drugs you’re
doing that’s the good fruit of Mormonism
you know but it’s all for here because
it’s not tied to the tree of life and if
you reap evil if you do evil from that
then you’re doing dark Deeds of of
murder and whatever and you love that
and it’s still from the same fruit but
both of those fruits lead to death
because death is it won’t carry on with
currency in the place to come the only
thing that will carry on is what you had
from the Tree of Life that gets you into
the kingdom now I don’t know what it
looks like outside the kingdom but it’s
not fire and and rigning hell I think
it’s just like this world and I think
many and and in this world we have
pockets of greatness and we have pockets
of terrible depravity and I see the same
Spectrum there as it is here but the
punishment that was imposed upon the
nation of Israel and everybody else
which was separation from God and going
to hell until Jesus came that’s all over
yeah is that all starting to make sense
yeah I want to like pin this episod
episode for the rest of time I feel like
you really just yeah and and it’s so
contrary look at if you tell a Christian
everybody has the spirit of God in them
they will go nuts because it gets rid of
evangelism yeah it gets rid of you’re
going to hell you know and if you preach
you’ve been reconciled by God and his
love for you
unconditionally everything that people
do because of the falls over but you are
responsible for how you want to live
yeah what it it might remove all that
but it then brings up how are you going
to love the person that you’ve been
hating this whole time because they’re
not the what doing what you want exactly
like it’s a lot harder yeah there’s a
lot more to do there’s more to do and
people don’t realize that there’s they
think it’s a cheap way it’s not it’s
making us responsible yeah you it’s so
much easier in their way cuz you can
just not deal with people like there’s
an excuse in here to just not deal with
those yeah like I don’t there’s like
verses all over the place that like
separate yourself from that stuff so
they can yeah but that was for the face
the dark every day basically they don’t
have to face dark they just are like
hiding in their Corner
yeah it’s radical huh yeah that was
awesome thank you Delaney and delany’s
gotten better at doing fist bumps you
used to hold your hand up like this and
she’d go or just yeah or a little
Nick okay whoever is watching this thank
you for watching um did we go live it’s
not live but just oh thank you in ADV
archives um we went long didn’t we yeah
that was a very long episode so hope you
like it goodbye bye
