Faith without religion.
Navigating Biblical Principles and Cultural Contexts: A Discussion on 1 Corinthians 11
Bible, interpretation, cultural
In a recent episode of the “I Don’t Get the Bible” podcast, Del and Shean delve into the complexities of interpreting biblical texts, specifically focusing on 1 Corinthians 11. The discussion highlights the challenges of understanding scripture, especially when it comes to cultural context and the application of biblical principles in modern times. Del and Sean emphasize the importance of open dialogue between parents and children about religious texts, rather than strictly adhering to traditional interpretations.
The conversation touches on the often-quoted scripture, “Follow my example as I follow the example of Christ,” and questions its application today. They explore the historical context of Paul’s teachings, noting the societal norms of the time, such as the roles of men and women, and how these have been interpreted or misused over the years. The podcast also addresses the cultural aspects of head coverings and long hair, suggesting that these practices were specific to the time and place of the original audience.
Del and Sean argue for a more spiritual and less literal interpretation of the Bible, suggesting that understanding comes from seeking the spirit rather than relying solely on the text. They acknowledge the subjective nature of interpreting scripture and the importance of personal spiritual growth in understanding biblical teachings.
The episode concludes with a discussion on the broader implications of biblical interpretation, questioning the assumption that all scripture is universally applicable. Del and Shawn propose that understanding the Bible requires recognizing its historical context and the intentions of its authors, rather than applying it indiscriminately to modern life. This approach encourages listeners to engage with the text thoughtfully and to consider the spirit behind the words.
Podcast Transcript:
all right all right we’re here chapter
11 I don’t get the Bible First
Corinthians Del and Sean I don’t get the
Bible me too podcast yep okay oh by the
way someone commented what did they say
I think they are just criticizing that
this isn’t based in scripture
somehow yeah saying the smell test for
teachings is when they’re based in
scripture or not and I don’t know how we
could be more I could I don’t know how
we could be less based oh my gosh how do
you say it you don’t know how we could
be more based in scripture uh relative
to um all that we do but on this show
what we do is we do a dad and his
daughter who’s never read the Bible is
talking to her dad and we aren’t doing
well it says this well it says that we
do that in other places so my smell test
says you’re looking for religion
something perfect something we’re not
doing that we’re talking openly and I
would if you’re a father or a mother I
would suggest that you do the same with
your child instead of citing okay all
right thanks yeah let’s talk by the way
he has a million teachings where he
actually does that yeah in places
trillion a million
almost um okay so 1 Corinthians
11 starts with follow my example as I
follow the example of Christ um and
chapter 10 by the way ended with you
know uh we it was him sort of
demonstrating how freedom
is utilized for believers in that time
it seems like they were talking about
offering to meet and stuff like that
yeah um we talked a lot about you know I
become a Jew to Jews and then him saying
you know not everything’s good for you
at the same time so he then says follow
my example as I follow Christ and before
I go on that is just a really we’ve
talked about this before but that’s a
really over
quoted scripture by
like people just saying like versus
animals no versus I was going to say
dudes actually like I I see a lot of
guys that are like follow me as I follow
Christ like that’s I’ve never heard a
woman say it but that’s not to be sexist
I think they just like want to feel
responsible in a certain way and so they
say that I don’t know it just seems like
a total misuse of that but what gave
Paul what gave Paul the right to say
that to Paul was a firstand witness of
Christ saw him was taught by him three
years in the wilderness was an apostle
had an abundance of the spirit performed
Miracles and so for with a bride in that
day that’s true but I would never tell
anybody to follow me as I follow Christ
today yeah you know because we we all
see through a glass Darkly we follow the
subjectively yeah you know our Liberty
is based on us and God and so if someone
follows me maybe they don’t have the
liberty or maybe they have more Liberty
so it’s a stupid thing to apply to each
other now um but why isn’t Paul that
seems to corrected that is stupid to
apply now but it seems weird for him to
apply it then even like Christ was
Christ was right there like he had just
died those people knew of him it could
easily have been follow Christ no he
could have just said follow Christ uh
there were so many things that were at
war against that bride at that time
there were gnostics who were popping up
there were false gospels that were uh
popping up there were judaizers who were
coming into the faith and teaching the
law there was so much there to
absolutely muddy the clear picture so he
just says look you know I’m put in place
here to help guide you follow me as I
follow Christ okay yeah and
um okay that makes sense yeah let’s keep
going I praise you for remembering me in
everything and for holding to the
Traditions just as I passed them on to
you but I want you to realize that the
head of every man is Christ the head of
every woman is man the head of Christ is
god um okay I was curious about the
order of
that it’s a tough order uh for people uh
but remember in that day and age women
had no rights coming out from Judaism
everything was connected to their
husband they were uh he was the one the
patriarch he was in Big Time form
remember the old test God dealt strictly
through males in terms of priesthood he
would speak to some women there were
prophetesses in the Old Testament but uh
bottom
line um there’s an order at especially
at that time and I still think the best
relationships are based on that same
order now that’s my opinion uh God
Christ who is a human made flesh god
with us and then man to God man to
Christ wife to husband uh wife and
husband to children and uh but it’s not
one of U bondage and and law and it’s
the man is to love his wife and as he
loves her she is to respect him he’s to
love her as Christ loved the church I
don’t think that model is necessarily
bad and remember they were side by side
their part Partners they were equal in
the garden till the fall the fall
brought in this hierarchy that is slowly
revealed to people so that passage could
be very uh troubling to some couples
they’d say I’m not we’re not doing that
that’s fine because it has been abused
by men men if I’m the I’m you know
you’re going to do this you know
Barefoot pregnant and making my meals
woman no it’s not that at all does that
make sense yeah and it’s
like you are saying now
it’s about like a Lo a logistics thing
it’s not about a Salvation or something
not about salvation at all I don’t think
it was about salvation to them either I
just think it was a thing of order yeah
yeah
and like yeah it’s not like are you
suggesting that women access God through
their man sort of thing no I’m saying
that in the
home uh a man should take the
lead uh for a bunch of different reasons
based on our makeup but that lead has to
be one where he uh loves that’s the lead
that’s how he follows Christ so if he’s
not loving with aape love toward his
wife especially there’s a problem it
seems
like the man like men need that role oh
sure like it part of our is a yeah yeah
like in a not that’s not a bad thing
it’s
like but it’s countered to saying men
are are
like more equipped for that role or
something like that that is how it’s
maybe abused but it’s more that like
that’s how men are made and like how
they respond well to things and whatever
nothing to do with equipment yeah I mean
it’s really simple all you got to do and
we can deny I mean there’s exceptions
perhaps the better way to say it is the
one who is the most masculine in a in a
in a relationship should take that lead
and the one who’s more feminine in that
relationship should take that lead but
there is there are some things that
males really are about and there are
some things that females are really all
about females are often they don’t want
to make a lot of decisions men like to
make decisions men are the ones
typically when looking at gender outside
of religion who are far more forceful
who by our hormones make us this way or
the more masculine more masc masculine
person is the one that’s more forceful
the one that’s more forceful so you take
that balance in the couple that bring it
together and you and you use both sides
of the masculine and feminine to help
their in their marriage
that’s really really I think the more
important part it seems like you know H
how you’re you’re saying men love women
women respect men yeah do you think
that’s the way that it plays out in the
whole chain so God loves Christ Christ
respects God yeah Christ loves man man
respects Christ yeah wow I’ve never
thought of that women love children
children respect women yeah wow that’s
really interesting
and you know the best masculine traits
will be one of I’m going to earn for
this family I’m going to protect this
family I’m going to help guide this
family in love and the best feminine
traits are I’m going to brood over them
and I’m going to protect them and help
them and serve them and we together are
going to guide the children um it’s all
been messed up by men you know primarily
no no but uh yeah okay and then before
we keep going I I praise you for
remembering me and everything and
holding to the Traditions just as I pass
them on to you but I want you to
realize so it seems like they’re off
in like what is he trying to say there
they’ve held to certain Traditions but
they haven’t remembered this order
apparently things okay okay so every man
who prays or prophesies with his head
covered dishonors his head um I’ll read
this it’s all kind of one big thing but
but every woman who prays or prophesies
with her head uncovered dishonors her
head it’s the same as having her head
shaved for if a woman does not cover her
head she might as well have her hair cut
off but if it is is a disgrace for a
woman to have her hair cut off or her
head shaved then she should cover her
head a man not ought ought not to cover
his head since he is the image and glory
of God but woman is the glory of man um
and this part is where like I’m that all
just seems cultural there so cultural
but how do you
decide yeah yeah and this is the problem
with the with the taking the Bible and
using it as a manual yeah you know
because if you can say that’s cultural
well what else yeah you know and and so
there are churches where women have to
have their heads covered that is I mean
I’ve wondered why that is a big point
that Hill use when talking to people
like
you’re a woman your head should be
covered right now if you think that you
should also be doing that and I didn’t
realize how like close the things were
like it’s in the same letter that he
says one thing that they’re adhering to
and not the other close it’s pretty wild
yeah um and I but I think they would
argue they’re also taking it
principally and but the then the
argument is what what gives you the
right to do that like the only they’re
taking it
no like the people who don’t cover their
head but who the sort of picking and
choosing they are take they’re saying
they’re taking it principally in the way
that you would also say that yeah but
then you’re like what gives you the
right to do that I I’m taking it
principally because I think it’s
finished you don’t think it’s finished
well then that’s fine but if they take
other parts nonprincipal as dogmatically
that’s where the argument is if I take
all of it principally because it’s by
the spirit that we walk it’s not by the
letter we read that to learn but we
don’t take it literally and materially
they will take some of it literally and
materially like you got to have deacons
you got to do that and no no it’s all
spiritual because that was for them then
as proven by who he addresses and then
the other scriptures that say
everything’s now written on the heart so
they just do not logically carry it
through MH even if they take some
principle and some not it doesn’t matter
the argument is what I just said okay
um okay so it goes on and a more
confusing part here is for man did not
come from woman but woman for man
neither was Man created for woman but
woman for man that’s makes sense but
then it goes
it’s it is for this reason that a woman
ought to have authority over her own
head because of the Angels nevertheless
in the Lord woman is not independent of
man nor is man independent of woman so I
would have
thought you know that it goes from like
a hierarchy to then man a woman being
the same yeah it says for and it says
for as wom came from man so also man is
born of woman so that was very confusing
it seems to switch yeah it does switch
and but what he’s doing is saying it’s
just like Peter saying a year is a a
thousand uh Years is as a day of the
Lord okay but then he follows it up with
and a day of the Lord is as a thousand
years so he says the man is at the head
of the woman here because she was taken
from him but then he goes and he says
but then again men come from women you
know yeah by birth yeah so you know he
balances it he says don’t get too
excited on this one principle
because we all come from women everybody
comes from a woman W that’s interesting
yes he’s a smart guy it is for this
reason a woman ought to have authority
over her own head because of the Angels
what no idea okay
um okay that makes sense though I didn’t
understand why he just sort of changed
it there but it’s just hard to
read like a Baseline comment is just
that it’s really hard to read and
know what he’s trying to suggest and
that’s why it cannot be understood by
The Logical mind it’s only understood by
the spirit so when you’re not having
trouble understanding you seek the
spirit you seek the spirit because that
is what gives the clarity I have people
all the time say where do you get that
from it’s by and how do you get that
Spirit you you seek it you are open to
it you try to follow him and you seek in
your heart that’s why you’re very black
and white this is the best program to do
because we’re taking someone who’s like
an engineer you’re extremely black and
white you you’re like a lawyer you take
that and that’s what we’ve done that’s
the Western way of thinking but the the
the the the spiritual way of thinking is
much more
metaphysical and so you
that’s all I could say what do you think
it did you start reading it this way did
it take you like did you I’ve always
been a uh I was first of all I’m a bad
student I’m not a good student so I had
to learn to become a better student to
search and then I am very mystical so
when I started to grow and learn in it I
I remember I I connect dots so when I
hear one dot that I read about in
Genesis and I hear another dot in my
file system I’m writing notes on that
card and that’s how I have learned to
understand it better but like on your
first
pass read the whole thing totally
obscure and and that’s what is really
interest interesting about the word is
because everybody is interpreting it
from a different place again a nod to
subjective experience totally yeah
yeah okay um I mean
okay I can’t I’m like have a hard time
deciding what to Super expand on because
I could talk to him for hours about
certain things so but I do want to like
get Through the Bible with you
so okay he continues on verse 13 judge
for yourselves if is it proper for a
woman to pray to God with her head
uncovered judge for
yourselves um does not the very nature
of things teach you that if a man has
long hair it is a disgrace in him but if
a woman has long hair it’s her glory
okay stop there so we have Jesus with
long hair 60s everybody Jesus has long
hair Jesus has long hair we got a
picture we use he’s got long hair it’s
believed he he didn’t what yeah where
did that come from it came from in the
Catholic Church what they did was their
artist took the principles of his
feminite Meek mild nature and they
feminized him wow and they gave him long
hair wow and in order to make sure he
was a man they kept the beard but you
see a period in art history where Jesus
is like a flamer man he’s just like
super super
affined that is so interesting and then
a kick back to that is you know men
saying no he was a carpenter so then we
started making him a superhero you know
and that’s the one all the you know
really sorry not to generalize but the
uh
conservative uh politically conservative
have a very strong masculine Jesus he
wasn’t a carpenter we don’t know that he
was a carpenter’s son we assume that he
was slinging nails and and wood but he
could have said to his stepfather I’m I
don’t even do any of that and the
scripture really said describes him as
nothing but a read out of dried ground
so I think in my opinion of all the
things on the file card he was a very
non-im little Jewish man wow yeah W
that’s really wild isn’t it yeah it’s it
really changes it a lot to think of him
yeah looking different than how we
portray him yeah like the that’s fat
Jesus right there I made him fat have
you ever seen fat Jesus have you you
ever seen Jesus fat no I made a fat
Jesus why not it’s true yeah you know
yeah they what why don’t they because
fat is not
attractive yeah yeah I wish we everybody
had like a really but that doesn’t work
with our no no no he was they said he
was a glutton he came eating and
drinking that’s what they said a wine
bibber and a glutton why don’t we depict
him on the cross that way they call him
a auton yeah Jesus says that he said
John came neither eating nor drinking
and you said he has a
devil the son of man comes eating and
drinking and you call him a glutton and
a wine bibber wow and we know that it
was then alcoholic wine because there’s
no see all of this stuff you put
together and you start to get wow
religious Traditions really messed with
this stuff wow yeah that’s a such a
bummer
yeah it’s all messed up but all messed
up um so for long hair is given to her
covering I never thought of it that way
either like yeah it’s modesty for a
woman yeah it’s long hair it covers her
breasts and yeah all of it if anyone
wants to be contentious about this we
have no other practice nor do the
Churches of God yeah don’t make it a
thing to divide on
yeah that’s what that means mhm I really
I’m reading the simplest version and I
can’t it’s okay so weird you’re training
your mind I bet you could read
architectural digests and get exactly
what they’re going after this is just
like learning math or philosophy it’s a
new language yeah it did but you that’s
a good analogy because I learned it yeah
you didn’t know it when you got there
read it for a while yeah you you
in the following directives I have no
praise for
you don’t you love
that I’m I think parents should say that
to their kid and what I’m about to say I
have no praise for
you for your meetings do more harm than
good now we’re going to talk about what
they were doing with their Gathering
Together the meetings the meetings yeah
I see yeah that’s where the issue is MHM
in the first place I hear that when you
come together as a church there are
divisions among you and to some extent I
believe it no doubt there have been
differences among you to show which of
you have God’s
approval oh the F okay another dumb
thing the first time I read that I
thought it was suggesting some did have
got like he was suggesting some they’re
just saying yeah there you shouldn’t be
doing that guys so then when you come
together it’s not the Lord’s Supper you
eat for when you’re eating some of you
go ahead with your own private suppers
and as a result one person remains
hungry another gets drunk division no
Unity what every group does yeah um I’ll
finish this paragraph we’re already over
time right now but um don’t you have
homes to eat eat and drink in or do you
despise the churchy of God by
humiliating those who have nothing what
shall I say to you shall I praise you
certainly not in this matter um it just
it is this important it seems like just
it’s a principal yeah you know if you if
people who want to go to church go to a
church and some people are excluding
others and some people are it’s a
potluck and some people say we brought
fried chicken and another person says we
just brought greens and they don’t share
it’s a principle of Love MH yeah it’s
all it
is people are still using this stuff I
don’t know anything’s going to get
discredited I think it would be so right
now in your file card Note 1 Corinthians
chapter 10 is full of stuff that will
prove practicing that
Church’s dictates isn’t applicable yeah
yeah it’s it’s him writing a letter to
certain people doing certain things that
he disagre of yeah and that can
be I see where they’re coming from where
they’re like that was specific to that
letter to those people but like he says
more General things that we could take
and apply to ourselves I see that point
too but I take it even more because they
say we follow the Bible and the Bible
opens up what this is to the church at
Corinth yeah that’s the directive yeah
yeah but okay wait so there he’s saying
this is to the Church of Corinth there’s
this whole letter he does specific
things to them and then he says
principal things but they’re assuming
the church at Corinth is Paul talking to
Believers in
general and the church at Corinth is a
specific set of them yeah so where you
said there are a couple places where the
Bible on the whole suggests that
Believers in general are still carrying
forward what they were doing then and
that’s why they like those specific
places that say you know to Believers
for the rest of time keep doing this is
a Great Commission or whatever yeah
that’s why they’re like okay then we
take this letter and try to play it out
no because there is no place in the
Bible where it ever says all of this is
to everybody okay there’s only places
where he does where he will say this is
to the church at Ephesus and all
believers so that’s the thing that opens
the door of that specific letter to be
to everybody outside of that context
otherwise there is not a passage that
says this is for every believer what
they do the the people who criticize us
is say the whole thing is to us it’s all
to us but they don’t have biblical proof
for that they and if they had any kind
of biblical proof for it at all in the
most liberal way it would only be the
Old Testament we don’t have anything in
the apostolic record that it’s written
to us none so you have to assign that to
yourself you have to take a liberty to
do it and but they say we follow the
Bible if they follow the Bible they
couldn’t take that Liberty because it’s
not given them you get it yeah
yeah but they follow the Bible because
there are a couple times where it says
to all believers yeah but that’s only in
the letter to the church at Ephesus
let’s say okay it’s only that so that’s
the only letter then they could take and
say well he says to all Christians here
because it was a separate letter it was
not part of a collection men collected
those books okay but then like the story
of Jesus throughout the gospels is
like I see how you like find that it’s
to them then but it’s far less clear
like this is to this person at this time
that like the letters are like the
gospels oh the gospels that’s what
you’re talking about okay the gospels
are a different thing well that’s what
the gospels are attached to the rest of
the Bible who attached them mened yeah
yeah but that’s where people now are
coming from where they’re like the
gospels are very much maybe the gospels
and themselves are written to us but
Jesus is applicable to us he is but the
gospels weren’t even written to us the
gospels were written or the gospels
description are about what Jesus did for
Jews it’s a history of them and so what
he does in those gospels isn’t
applicable to Gentiles okay yeah only
what Paul does with his teachings is it
applicable to Gentiles do you get that
okay so even if you just take the
gospels and the logic that they’re
included so therefore all the rest of it
is included then you have to say well
who included them how come we have uh uh
12 gospels but we only have four yeah
and who did that men did it and then
when was it done well it was done to way
after this church existed the first
church
and then it wasn’t agreed upon till like
the
1500s so the Bible has been a product of
man and that’s okay we benefit from it
we benefit from reading and studying the
gospels we benefit from the but when we
take it and we assign all of it to us
now it’s a mistake in any way any way
shape or form and but it’s not something
that you can just say and people get
it’s very tough to get to that point to
understand it and there’s it’s a really
weird thing because I think you both
both sides are arguing from The Stance
of I’m taking the whole Bible into
account and you’re not yeah like for
some reason both sides feel like they
are and the other one isn’t and the
other one’s cherry picking or something
but so represent their side let’s talk
yeah that’s let’s do that in the next
show yeah okay next show we’re going to
carry this on okay thanks everyone
this will be good
